Nicolau Award

[Question4U]

i'd be excited about getting my job back....

Me TOO figure this crap out.

 

[Trogdor]

Me three!

 

[Browntothebone]

Me four!

 

[greyskyracer]

By increasing staffing due to increases in vacation and better work rules.

No more FAR mins for the east and hopefully west vacation or better=recalls.

thank you I hope you guys get back soon

 

[Bad-Andy]

i'd be excited about getting my job back....

If you get your job back I'll be jealous... I know most of us are dreading having to go back to the east... I wonder how recalls work if we want to wait and be recalled to the west? Anyone know the procedure to bypass coming back to the POS 190???

 

[FlyUnder]

By increasing staffing due to increases in vacation and better work rules.

No more FAR mins for the east and hopefully west vacation or better=recalls.

And herein lies the crux of the problem.

These very jobs were STRIPPED from US Airways pilots during the second bankruptcy, which was entered into to make the merger happen. Now the AWA pilots are foaming at the mouth at the prospect of stealing these jobs by virtue of a very lopsided "award". This "award" will TRANSFER all of this jobs directly from US Airways pilots to AWA pilots.

This is fair?

FlyUnder

 

[Secret Squirrel]

The East guys have pretty much lost the right to scream fair at this point.

 

[Captzaahlie]

And herein lies the crux of the problem.

These very jobs were STRIPPED from US Airways pilots during the second bankruptcy, which was entered into to make the merger happen. Now the AWA pilots are foaming at the mouth at the prospect of stealing these jobs by virtue of a very lopsided "award". This "award" will TRANSFER all of this jobs directly from US Airways pilots to AWA pilots.

This is fair?

FlyUnder

there are soooo many old farts at this place that half will be gone in the next 10 years .... so loosen up your wedgee!

 

[FDJ2]

And herein lies the crux of the problem.

These very jobs were STRIPPED from US Airways pilots during the second bankruptcy, which was entered into to make the merger happen.

US Airways entered its second bankruptcy in September 2004, AWA didn't announce its acquisition of US Airways until May 2005. US Airways didn't enter into BK to merge with AWA, US Airways entered BK because it was a failing carrier.

Now the AWA pilots are foaming at the mouth at the prospect of stealing these jobs by virtue of a very lopsided "award". This "award" will TRANSFER all of this jobs directly from US Airways pilots to AWA pilots.

This is fair?

FlyUnder

Yes it's fair. What's not fair is an abusive majority stealing seniority that is not rightfully theirs, dragging another pilot group into an unprincipled sham of a union and not honoring a final and binding seniority award as previously agreed too. No one is planning on stealing jobs, the jobs have already been stolen by an unprincipled mob, aka USAPA, and those jobs will eventually be returned to the original owners along with fines and assessments of the east pilots to be paid to the west pilots who have suffered harm due to USAPA's failure to fairly represent all members of the bargaining unit.

 

[Bringupthebird]

And herein lies the crux of the problem.

These very jobs were STRIPPED from US Airways pilots during the second bankruptcy, which was entered into to make the merger happen. Now the AWA pilots are foaming at the mouth at the prospect of stealing these jobs by virtue of a very lopsided "award". This "award" will TRANSFER all of this jobs directly from US Airways pilots to AWA pilots.

This is fair?

FlyUnder

HUH???
There's not a single shred of truth in anything you posted. None.

Weird perspective too.

 

[General Lee]

Yes it's fair. What's not fair is an abusive majority stealing seniority that is not rightfully theirs, dragging another pilot group into an unprincipled sham of a union and not honoring a final and binding seniority award as previously agreed too. No one is planning on stealing jobs, the jobs have already been stolen by an unprincipled mob, aka USAPA, and those jobs will eventually be returned to the original owners along with fines and assessments of the east pilots to be paid to the west pilots who have suffered harm due to USAPA's failure to fairly represent all members of the bargaining unit.

Yeahbut, guys like Sulley have INTEGRITY...... they would never do that...right???

Thank GAWD those Easties got their arses handed to them. What a bunch a wheenies. Can't wait to hear what those CLT MEC guys think of a video camera in their meetings. Guess what A-holes? It's allowed now...

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ironspud]

Schadenfreude...and well deserved.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Yes it's fair. What's not fair is an abusive majority stealing seniority that is not rightfully theirs, dragging another pilot group into an unprincipled sham of a union and not honoring a final and binding seniority award as previously agreed too. No one is planning on stealing jobs, the jobs have already been stolen by an unprincipled mob, aka USAPA, and those jobs will eventually be returned to the original owners along with fines and assessments of the east pilots to be paid to the west pilots who have suffered harm due to USAPA's failure to fairly represent all members of the bargaining unit.

Well stated.

 

[FlyUnder]

Yes it's fair. What's not fair is an abusive majority stealing seniority that is not rightfully theirs, dragging another pilot group into an unprincipled sham of a union and not honoring a final and binding seniority award as previously agreed too. No one is planning on stealing jobs, the jobs have already been stolen by an unprincipled mob, aka USAPA, and those jobs will eventually be returned to the original owners along with fines and assessments of the east pilots to be paid to the west pilots who have suffered harm due to USAPA's failure to fairly represent all members of the bargaining unit.

This Company did an about face just prior to September o4, stopped a major expansion in South and Latin America, and closed down a major hub expansion in FLL. The ONLY thing they went after during the 2nd bankruptcy was the employee contracts. The target we were told from day one was the LOW BALL AWA contract. We were told that we HAD to match the AWA contract almost exactly.

After the merger was announced it came out that AWA and the company had been talking since PRIOR to the bankruptcy filing. That is correct - PRIOR. It became very obvious that Parker had been back-dooring the shots for some time. In addition to the Captain jobs lost due to the contract changes, US Airways parked 60 aircraft as a DIRECT result of the merger.

All of these jobs were HELD by US Airways pilots and are now being TRANSFERRED to AWA pilots by virtue of a flawed and corrupt system. Just ONE example - It took ALPA 18 MONTHS before even setting the PID date, because AWA couldn't come up with an accurate seniority list. (For reference - The entire Delta/NWA process took about 18 months from start to finish!)

This is just one of the reasons why this will NEVER be settled, and why the AWA scumbags will be treated as the opportunistic thieves that they are.

Their cry throughout the merger process was "Keep your eye on the prize." I wonder why?

FlyUnder

 

[m80drvr]

This Company did an about face just prior to September o4, stopped a major expansion in South and Latin America, and closed down a major hub expansion in FLL. The ONLY thing they went after during the 2nd bankruptcy was the employee contracts. The target we were told from day one was the LOW BALL AWA contract. We were told that we HAD to match the AWA contract almost exactly.

After the merger was announced it came out that AWA and the company had been talking since PRIOR to the bankruptcy filing. That is correct - PRIOR. It became very obvious that Parker had been back-dooring the shots for some time. In addition to the Captain jobs lost due to the contract changes, US Airways parked 60 aircraft as a DIRECT result of the merger.

All of these jobs were HELD by US Airways pilots and are now being TRANSFERRED to AWA pilots by virtue of a flawed and corrupt system. Just ONE example - It took ALPA 18 MONTHS before even setting the PID date, because AWA couldn't come up with an accurate seniority list. (For reference - The entire Delta/NWA process took about 18 months from start to finish!)

This is just one of the reasons why this will NEVER be settled, and why the AWA scumbags will be treated as the opportunistic thieves that they are.

Their cry throughout the merger process was "Keep your eye on the prize." I wonder why?

FlyUnder

Just what jobs have been transferred to the west. As I see it west pilots that were working before the merger and now on the street while UNEMPLOYED east pilot are now working.

What reality are you living in? The PID date was not held up by anyone but ALPA and the merger process. The east grew in sive just after the merger. What are you smoking?

Your bitterness would be better directed toward your former management teams that milked your company dry, while NOT growing it into a viable carrier. USAirways has ALWAYS been on the ropes. Unfortunately you are too blind to see that.

I see no reasons why you must call the west pilots "scumbags" The average west pilot wants nothing more than this to be over. And if you and the east brain trust don't come to your senses it will be over soon. How you gonna feel being over 50 and unemployed!!!!!!! No one is going to merge with this mess.

By the way, if your definition of a "scumbag" is a person who expects those they do business with to live up to their agreements, then I guess the west pilots are scumbags. Most NON east pilots believe that is the definition on integrity.

Good luck

 

[cactusboy53]

This is just one of the reasons why this will NEVER be settled, and why the AWA scumbags will be treated as the opportunistic thieves that they are.

Their cry throughout the merger process was "Keep your eye on the prize." I wonder why?

Nice. Actually our cry throughout the acquisition process was "Why did Doug tie our skiff to the Titanic?"

More court time for us then, is it? How many more arbitrations, defeats, injunctions, and damage awards will it take for you to understand that the process was fair, final & binding?

My favorite quote from A Knights Tale lately? Adhemar: You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?

 

[gutshotdraw]

I was a revenue passenger on Cactus the day the merger was announced. I remember asking the gate agent what Doug was smoking when he dreamed up this little corporate disaster. I have a couple of friends at East but the industry probably would have been better off had USAir finally closed the doors back in '05.

Revisionist history and name-calling are frequently the last gasps of someone on the wrong side of the argument. Flyunder has reached that sad state.

 

[Bobby Orr 4]

FlyUnder:

I'm not thrilled when I am sitting on a hard 15 or 16 playing blackjack. Especially when the dealer is showing a face card or ten. I agreed to the rules and the results of the game when I put my money on the table. I compare it to binding arbitration. The result stands. Although I am not usually thrilled with the results I agreed to the process.
East guys reming me of Nicky (Joe Pesci's character) from Casino. Throwing the overcard back in the dealer's face and demanding another one. The east guys called the pit boss over (the federal judge) to complain about the results and the pit boss upholds the decision from the dealer (Nic award).

 

[TWA Dude]

Latest from Holly Hegeman's PlaneBusiness:

Judge Wake Issues Permanent Injunction Against USAPA
As if there is not enough going on this week, I could write an entire column on the permanent injunction that came down this week from U.S. District Judge Neil Wake concerning the lawsuit involving pilots from the old America West and pilots from the old US Airways.
Here is the pertinent legal language from the order itself:

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED, AND DECREED in No. CV 08-1633
PHX-NVW in favor of the Plaintiffs and the class of all pilots employed by US Airways,
Inc., in September 2008 who were on the America West seniority list on September 20, 2005, that Defendant US Airline Pilots Association and its officers, committees, representatives, agents, and all persons in active concert and participation with them are permanently enjoined and ordered to:

A. Immediately, and in good faith, make all reasonable efforts to negotiate and
implement a single collective bargaining agreement with US Airways that will
implement the Nicolau Award seniority proposal unmodified, according to its terms;
B. Make all reasonable efforts to support and defend the seniority rights provided
by or arising from the Nicolau Award in negotiations with US Airways; and C. Not negotiate for separate collective bargaining agreements for the separate pilot groups, but rather negotiate for a single collective bargaining agreement for both pilot groups that incorporates the Nicolau Award. This injunction does not restrain USAPA from pursuing its rights under Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act, consistent with the previous sentence.
​

Short and sweet? US Airways West pilots win, Nicolau Award stands, and the US Airways East pilots who started USAPA as an attempt to skirt the Nicolau Seniority Award now find themselves with no reason for existing.
There is much more to the story, and after we're done with earnings, you can bet your favorite seniority list we are going to revisit this whole mess. But essentially, Judge Wake eviscerated the braintrust at USAPA with his ruling.
Wonder if enough US Airways East pilots will now come to their senses and work with the US Airways West pilots to ensure the pilot group is a strong and credible organization -- led by members who are also strong and credible. Or is the braintrust at USAPA going to continue to act in a manner that suggests they are basically mentally unstable -- much less credible?
As I said, more on all this, and why it is crucial the pilot group at the airline get its act together sooner rather than later, after the second quarter earnings extravaganza is over.

 

[Trogdor]

With all the ill feelings from East to West and West to East, are there any West guys who would actually want a base out east? Everyone is worried about losing their career expectations, but with all this animosity, I find it difficult to think that we would ever see an East/West crew in the same aircraft. Just an honest question from a furloughed 3rd lister.