New Pinnacle Management team

[Flyer1015]

The judge would have approved the term sheet immediately so there is no full pay to the last day. Have you seen the starting pay rates at spirit? ($39/hr) Captains can still make over $90000/yr at 9E while they wait out a call from a airline that pays decent starting wages. How is what spirit pilots make any different than the contract we just accepted when compared to Delta or United? A 7 year Spirit Airbus captain rate is $120/hr and at Delta it would be $190/hr. Virgin pays $44/hr and you want me to commute to California or New York while a Gojet FO gets my $90000 Job. You can say that there will be a quick upgrade at these LCC's but no one can say that with 100% certainty. Now I could be stuck as an FO at a LCC and it may take 6-8 years to get back to where I was at 9E.

With the exception of Southwest, the low cost carriers are putting pressure on mainline wages by doing the same job for lower wages. Kind of sounds like the definition of a regional pilot.

Another regional lifer comment. I remember flying with a couple MEM Captains. When I asked them about Spirit, JetBlue, or VX, I got the "Oh I'm only leaving for Fedex!" Their MEM roots are established, I can understand that. But to put all your eggs in one basket hoping for one carrier is foolish. Now some of them did escape and are at purple, but the rest are now being forced out of MEM as it closes, and will be doing a near-impossible commute to MSP, DTW, or JFK. At that point, when hundreds are commuting in between those city pairs, I'd rather do a MEM to SFO commute for VX or FLL for Spirit.

At 2nd year VX pay, $65/hr, doing 90 hr credit per month (not too hard) plus per diem you'd be on track for $78k, or $85k if you do 95 hr credit per month. It really depends on what you want. But make no mistake, if regaining credit is what you want, you can easily do that at any LCC within your 2nd year, or 3rd by latest. Spirit has plenty of opportunities for soft money credit. And with only 81 planes and 850-900 pilots, unless you are in the top 450 you will be downgraded to FO.


As for your last comment, the LCC pressure on mainline wages has turned the tables. The latest pilot contracts at Delta and United show that to be the case. United and Delta have had good achievements in their respective pilot contracts, far better than wha VX, Spirit, and JBLU have to offer. I don't buy your premise that the LCCs are doing what the regionals are doing to mainline.

 

[1.3XVso]

Another regional lifer comment. I remember flying with a couple MEM Captains. When I asked them about Spirit, JetBlue, or VX, I got the "Oh I'm only leaving for Fedex!" Their MEM roots are established, I can understand that. But to put all your eggs in one basket hoping for one carrier is foolish. Now some of them did escape and are at purple, but the rest are now being forced out of MEM as it closes, and will be doing a near-impossible commute to MSP, DTW, or JFK. At that point, when hundreds are commuting in between those city pairs, I'd rather do a MEM to SFO commute for VX or FLL for Spirit.

At 2nd year VX pay, $65/hr, doing 90 hr credit per month (not too hard) plus per diem you'd be on track for $78k, or $85k if you do 95 hr credit per month. It really depends on what you want. But make no mistake, if regaining credit is what you want, you can easily do that at any LCC within your 2nd year, or 3rd by latest. Spirit has plenty of opportunities for soft money credit. And with only 81 planes and 850-900 pilots, unless you are in the top 450 you will be downgraded to FO.


As for your last comment, the LCC pressure on mainline wages has turned the tables. The latest pilot contracts at Delta and United show that to be the case. United and Delta have had good achievements in their respective pilot contracts, far better than wha VX, Spirit, and JBLU have to offer. I don't buy your premise that the LCCs are doing what the regionals are doing to mainline.

Bingo! And when the wet dream gets dried they go BEGGING to get a handjob over at spirit ,vx , blue ect.

 

[Flyer1015]

Unity? Two thirds o the leadership representing more than half of the pilots disagreed with SE and so did national and its our unity being questioned? Quite frankly SE and CS seemed like OK guys but couldn't work and play well with the others, and I was happy to keep TW.

It's called informational picketing, and 9E was in a long fight with management. You came in, and lets be honest, XJ's primary concern was the loss of all their Saabs and wanting to quickly get a JCBA and seniority list settled so their pilots wouldn't face furloughs or more downgrades. As for Colgan, they were just dumb and happy with their fast movement and didn't want to rock any boats. Only 9E pilots were really fed up and ready for some action, even if it was only picketing outside MEM. The other two airlines were very quick to put 9E down on picketing. That right there was the first sign that NONE of the 3 unions would be working together and the first hint that the SLI negotiations would go down the toilet.

In answer to that question I would say no. But you keep trying to ask questions like that to help ignore the reality of our situation and over simply our choice. That's because if I keep bringing in the whole picture your argument gets real weak real quick. Its a fascinating version of history, I wish our choice was that clear cut. The bankruptcy process isn't fair, and it doesn't exist in the vaccume you pretend it does. You try to ignore facts and live in a fantasy land (not unlike your fake martyrdom from the online outing) and I can't come with you.

What are you talking about? You voted on concessions voluntarily. From the updates online, it said that the company wouldn't be going back to court to seek further concessions. And what martyrdom are you talking about outing online? I really dont care what you or your vindictive friends do on your off time on facebook. I stopped that immature online hunting crap a long time ago, like high school ages.

I've already explained a few times why our bk rates won't mean much in section 6 but certainly there is downward pressure from the pinnacle rates. There is more downward pressure from go jets, republic, and compass, which aren't in concession (is republic) never mind sky west and others who operate for less than asa. Being the most expensive regional contract is tough, I hope they make out much better than us.

How can you hope they make out better than you, when you yourself (or at least 85% of you) voted yes to concessions?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Are you the Bill Lumberg that was outted for not being a DL pilot?

Nope....that's a good one though. News to me....post some of this supposed "outting".

Don't worry....I can wait!

 

[Flyer1015]

Are you the Bill Lumberg that was outted for not being a DL pilot?

What was this story?

 

[RJLoser]

DL Thread. Another board.

 

[jynxyjericho]

It's called informational picketing, and 9E was in a long fight with management. You came in, and lets be honest, XJ's primary concern was the loss of all their Saabs and wanting to quickly get a JCBA and seniority list settled so their pilots wouldn't face furloughs or more downgrades. As for Colgan, they were just dumb and happy with their fast movement and didn't want to rock any boats. Only 9E pilots were really fed up and ready for some action, even if it was only picketing outside MEM. The other two airlines were very quick to put 9E down on picketing. That right there was the first sign that NONE of the 3 unions would be working together and the first hint that the SLI negotiations would go down the toilet.




What are you talking about? You voted on concessions voluntarily. From the updates online, it said that the company wouldn't be going back to court to seek further concessions. And what martyrdom are you talking about outing online? I really dont care what you or your vindictive friends do on your off time on facebook. I stopped that immature online hunting crap a long time ago, like high school ages.


How can you hope they make out better than you, when you yourself (or at least 85% of you) voted yes to concessions?

1. You're changing topics again, this is tedious. It looked to me like two of the unions worked together just fine and now everyone appears to be working just fine.

2. Sorry you are confused, I have to remember trolls don't actually listen to the other side. I'll review for others following along. The company wouldnt be going back to judge because its cheaper to wind own quick than redo the 1113c and go to the judge. You have to understand that takes months and if you win this time in court it still isn't what you want. It is cheaper to negotiate and forgo the courts in is case. Enough history, we weren't going back to the court they were going to wind us down if we couldn't come to an agreement, concessionary one, just like every debtor and labor group had to. From what I understand you can't get agreements settled from all the party's until everyone has agreed to cuts and that's to make sure than bombardier doesn't take the whole hit while the other parties and stakeholders take no hit. I am not a lawyer so don't ask me for every detail.

3. I can always hope. Anyway whatever is coming at asa next will take into account the surplus of money in the bank that skywest holds and the value of the asa contract. They have great agreements with delta as a condition of their sale. Asa won't have a bankruptcy handicap. All those positives combined puts them in a much better place than pinnacle and should fair better. Besides being in section 6 or in a jcba scenario is worlds better than chapter 11.

 

[Flyer1015]

Ok that's fair enough. You actually take the time to write detailed responses which is a lot more than some others do here. I do hope ASA and Skywest + XJT can come out of this whole Delta thing a little bit better. And I will also say the RLA + Chp 11 process renders a union pointless once it gets to that level, you're helpless.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Ok that's fair enough. You actually take the time to write detailed responses which is a lot more than some others do here. I do hope ASA and Skywest + XJT can come out of this whole Delta thing a little bit better. And I will also say the RLA + Chp 11 process renders a union pointless once it gets to that level, you're helpless.

I wish we could find a way to change the bk process for the better. Companies should be able to attract outside investment to save the company but why every stake holder has to take a bath except management, and management walks away with millions irks the hell out of me. I will say the union did help us and protect us from that second ask. Maybe in context it doesn't matter much but it sure is a difference total dollar wise. Maybe its best to let them rob us and let the market pressure take their entire employee group away to mcdonalds, baking and target, just doesn't help the profession when guys can't stay in and make it work.

I don't know, I just hope everyone else makes out better.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

DL Thread. Another board.

Well Loser,

You make an accusation and say its "from another board" so go ahead and post it...man up! I need a good laugh....

But then again....it's easy to pull a drive by and blame somebody else right?

Seriously....post up!!!