NetJets common carrier

[Grizz]

Maybe you guys took a job at a non-union shop - from what I've read here you're the only union company at NetJets.

The mechanics and flight attendents are union also. 2000 NJA pilots versus less than 300 NJI. Also, NJI was formed after there was union on property. I'm pretty sure we're a union shop. Might want to do a bit more reading before you spout off again popeye...it'll make you look a tad bit less foolish.

 

[Grizz]

Well Mudd, we're really not too concerned about what he wants or doesn't want. We've got 2000 pilots in our union to protect. Those are the guys we're concerned about making happy.

 

[Majik]

Seems to me that the NJI guys don't want anything to do with your union or it's "protection" (sounds like something you'd buy from the Mob so your business doesn't accidently burn down).

They probably don't. Nobody likes change, regardless of the potential outcome. The courts may rule that they don't have a choice.

When I was a pilot in the military the best jobs within a unit were not always given out based soley on merit. Most of them were given out to the politicians and butt-kissers. I wanted to get the good assignments so I became a dam n good politician and butt-kisser. I didn't like it but it was a necessary evil if I didn't want to be relegated to supply or some other undesirable position.

You've either learned to deal with the taste of your superior officers' buttocks or your extra duties include the supply room or something similar. That may be acceptable to you but I prefer a system that exhibits a better system of fairness without having to feel like you are a sell-out. Once you leave the military and are able to experience the advantages of a seniority based system, I think you would probably agree with me. Not something you pay so your business doesn't burn down, but something you pay dues for so that you don't have to go home every day with ass-breath. Until then, stay safe and thanks for your service.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Majik,

It never hurt if your wife socializes with the XOs wife. Or if your Golf game is good enough to get the attention of the CG. Of course marrying the Group Commander's daughter is always a career enhancing move. You wouldn't believe the orders I saw someone get after pulling that off. Did I mention she was ugly?

 

[Majik]

I had taken my CO hunting with my Dad. A pheasant rose up in front of my Dad, he shot and the bird started to fall. My CO shot a split second after my Dad. It was blatantly obvious that my father shot the bird. Both my Dad and I exchanged looks but remained silent when my CO suddenly yelled, "Dang but I just made a great shot, huh?" My Dad was prior military, knew how the game was played and wanted his son to stay out of the supply room too.

Just one of hundreds of examples. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed my time in Uncle Sam's Army. I was able to discover early the price I had to pay to play the game. That's not one of the parts I miss.

 

[Grizz]

Majik,

I never figured that kinda crap out. Must have been the reason I retired as a Captain. Then again, it could have been all those years I had as a enlisted guy. There were a lot of times that being a mustang was a good thing.

I remember my last OER prior to turning in my retirement paperwork. My rater was pissed off because I was retiring and not taking a staff tour and shooting for Major. He threatened to mark me down on the OER. I looked at him and told him point blank that the only way he could hurt me with that OER was to roll it up real tight and poke me in the eye with it. I thought the dude had no sense of humor but he actually laughed when I said that.

One of the things I really miss about the military was that generally you knew the rules and everyone typically followed them. I guess I was naive enough to assume that NetJets would follow the same example being born of a heavy military background. Boy was I ever mistaken. Now, I'm just glad we have a union so we can force the issue if need be.

 

[SeaSpray]

They probably don't. Nobody likes change, regardless of the potential outcome. The courts may rule that they don't have a choice.

When I was a pilot in the military the best jobs within a unit were not always given out based soley on merit. Most of them were given out to the politicians and butt-kissers. I wanted to get the good assignments so I became a dam n good politician and butt-kisser. I didn't like it but it was a necessary evil if I didn't want to be relegated to supply or some other undesirable position.

You've either learned to deal with the taste of your superior officers' buttocks or your extra duties include the supply room or something similar. That may be acceptable to you but I prefer a system that exhibits a better system of fairness without having to feel like you are a sell-out. Once you leave the military and are able to experience the advantages of a seniority based system, I think you would probably agree with me. Not something you pay so your business doesn't burn down, but something you pay dues for so that you don't have to go home every day with ass-breath. Until then, stay safe and thanks for your service.

Too bad you had such a sorry experience in the military, chief. I don't think it's typical though and it sure doesn't reflect what I've seen in the service. I've seen leadership, ability, bravery and hard work rewarded with command, cockpits, below-the-zone promotions, awards, assignments and schools.

I don't see how a system based on seniority rather than ability can be better than one that recognizes it when you're busting your ass! But I don't plan on getting out until after I see the next list. So, I won't be looking for a job for a while and everything can change by then - just like it did for the majors.

 

[Majik]

I know exactly what you mean Grizz. I have plenty of friends that did not know how or refused to play the games. It was always nice to have friends like that in supply so I could use that friendship to score some extra stuff when I needed it. I became good at playing the game. It was sad to see them holed up in their support jobs, wishing they were able to fly the line. Some even looked down on me for being such a butt-kisser but hey, thems wuz the rules and if you wanted to be on the starting team, and I did, then that's what you had to do.

Glad I don't have to work under the so-called "merit system" anymore. I had no golf game and my lips were starting to lose their pucker. Plus, my breath was starting to build up an immunity to Industrial Strength Listerine.

 

[El Chupacabra]

I know some don't agree with me but I would be willing to trade for FFH and Return of All Hostages.

 

[Majik]

Too bad you had such a sorry experience in the military, chief. I don't think it's typical though and it sure doesn't reflect what I've seen in the service. I've seen leadership, ability, bravery and hard work rewarded with command, cockpits, below-the-zone promotions, awards, assignments and schools.

I don't see how a system based on seniority rather than ability can be better than one that recognizes it when you're busting your ass! But I don't plan on getting out until after I see the next list. So, I won't be looking for a job for a while and everything can change by then - just like it did for the majors.

Wrong! I had a great experience in the military. If I could have remained in the cockpit I would have chosen to stay longer.

Glad to hear that all commands and choice assignments in your military are consistently being awarded soley on merit. I got out in 92 and, for the most part, that wasn't how things were done in my units. Politics, friendships and other things seemed to play a big part in deciding who got what, and the meritorious and deserving were not always the winners.

Let me give you an example. Let's say one person in Columbus decides who gets the next upgrade in the BBJ. He has to chose from 2000 pilots that live in 25 cities and may only get to Columbus once a year. Think he knows all of these pilots by name? Think he knows who's been naughty or nice? No, you are expecting the impossible from that individual. He's going to go with the guy that's made his presence known and touts his contributions (real or exaggerated) to the big decision maker. The guy that "plays the game" and not the "most deserving" will get the prize.

Like I said, wait til you are able to experience something this size before you solidify your judgement. Imagine a Commander with 2000 pilots, some of which he will never meet, trying to decide which ones get selected for promotion and which ones will be passed over.

Ask yourself why airlines use a seniority based system.