NetJets common carrier

[bluepost]

I disagree. Having us as one company will strengthen our position against NJ. In the future (1, 5 or 15 yrs down the road) we will come close to a strike...having another non union sister company to take up the slack will weaken our position to some degree.


Gulfstreams are high dollar aircraft with high dollar fees and the second highest paying pilot positions at our company. If things go to pay by weight someday, those are more seats for the senior guys, which very well may be the 1 seat number you need to move up to the next class, and if that allows you to move up 5 years earlier at 15k a year, that is serious coin.

I would rather fly a G4 then a CX.

I would like the option to do international. not saying I will, but the option is nice.

As much as folks claim it was the unions that broke the legacy carriers, it was the unions that made them such a great career to begin with. Unions are a direct response to a need. I think the more fractional pilots under a union, the better our position will be.

I want all these battles fought now and finished so when this war is over we can all move on together, do our best to heal the wounds, and keep/make NJ the best fractional around. I don't want any lingering issues.

And of course Spite.

 

[RJL]

A good response and some good points. Thanks.

I also think having a stronger position would benefit us.

I just don't think that this topic is a battle worth fighting for. There are other topics that we stand a chance at winning. This doesn't appear to be one of them.

 

[Grizz]

We have a separate negotiating committee and MEC for a reason. The negotiating committee can move forward in negotiations while the MEC can oversee many aspects of their strategic plan.

RJL - I can guarantee you that if ASAP moves forward with the single carrier petition , it's going to be because the lawyers have told them that it is a winable cause with minimal risk to us. I'll defer to their judgement.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Think of the whole event as a family reunion...

 

[Majik]

I just don't think that this topic is a battle worth fighting for. There are other topics that we stand a chance at winning. This doesn't appear to be one of them.

Why wouldn't you want to at least look into the matter? I think anything that gives us potential leverage at the bargaining table is a battle worth fighting for. Santulli wants to keep the NJA/NJI groups seperate? How much is he willing to pay?
I'm glad we're having the lawyer look into it to see if it's feasible. I want all options explored and I'm glad we now have five "Lewis & Clark" types on our MEC.

 

[Grizz]

RJL -

I just got off the phone with one of our MEC members and have some more information on this topic. The lawyer leading the charge on this is Roland Wilder. He's one of the top scope attorneys in the nation and has been working Teamster scope issues for just about forever. I met the man at the IAD roadshow and I can tell you he's the real deal. Anyway, his recommendation is that we've got one of the strongest cases for single carrier status he's ever seen and that we'd be foolish not to pursue it. The airline division agrees and has approved the lawsuit to go forward. I guess they know something that all the naysayers on the board here don't.

 

[Majik]

Griz,

That is great news! Thanks for the update! Amazing the number of things that are getting done now that we have a "New Team" in office.

 

[SeaSpray]

RJL -

I guess they know something that all the naysayers on the board here don't.

I know you guys are a bunch of pricks. The guys in the Gulfstreams did a better job of negotiating their pay and work rules than you did so rather than work to make your outfit better, you just want to steal what they built from them. With your fu(k-your-buddy attitude it's hard to believe you were ever in the military. What did those pilots ever do to you?

The other d!ckhead, bluepost said:

I want all these battles fought now and finished so when this war is over we can all move on together, do our best to heal the wounds, and keep/make NJ the best fractional around. I don't want any lingering issues.

You think that if you screw a pilot out of a job he worked hard for there won't be some "lingering issues?" What you're trying to do is a seat grab, nothing more, don't try to dignify it with any of your "move on together" kum-bay-yah BS. You don't have to "wound" those Gulfstream pilots if you don't want to. But, hey! They had better qualifications than you did and were able to get a better job than you, so screw-em right? Doesn't matter that you're not qualified to do their job. Can't meet the standards - Just lower them. Can't earn the job - just steal it.

"Make NJ the best fractional around," you're going to make it a sh!thole to work in with labor issues between the pilots that will never go away.

You guys are pathetic.

 

[Grizz]

SeaSpray -

The pilots that took the job at NJI should have known to at least look over the Railway Labor Act before taking a position with the non-union arm of a unionized company. Their short sightedness caused their own problems. The law is the law. I didn't write it but since it'll be used against us by NetJets at every opportunity, you're dam_ned straight we're going to use it when it's to our benefit. Seems like you've got a lot of anger on this issue for someone that supposedly doesn't have a dog in this fight.

 

[gunfyter]

"The needs of the Many, outweigh the needs of the Few...."

"...Fear is the path of the dark side. Fear leads to anger. anger leads to hate. hate leads to suffering... I sense much fear in you...."

 

[Majik]

Seaspray - The opposite side of your argument would be that the NJI guys took those jobs to support Santulli's union-busting tactics against the NJA pilots. I guess you would then say, "What a bunch of pricks those NJI guys are, to help Santulli try to stick it to those union pilots and take advantage of their lack of a scope clause." What are you going to come up with to rationalize that?

So the original scope clause was weak or non-existent. Shame on the initial union leadership for not covering all of the potential loopholes. Santulli and the NJI pilots exploited this weakness to their advantage. Now that the NJA guys are thinking about filing for Single Carrier Status, you think we are a bunch of pricks? Ever try to be objective and look at something from both sides?

Do I expect the NJI pilots to be initially happy about this. Hell no. Will they still have their jobs? Hell yes. Will they get to remain in their aircraft? Most likely. They may even get a pay raise. They may even like having a defined set of work rules and the protections they allow in case one of hundreds of management personalities ever try to slam dunk them for some perceived violation or petty disagreement.

I came to NJA with zero union experience and some pretty strong "anti-union" sentiments. I was wrong. Nothing's perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better when it's FAIR. I don't blame you for not understanding what you have never experienced. I'm a perfect example of that.

 

[SeaSpray]

SeaSpray -

The pilots that took the job at NJI should have known to at least look over the Railway Labor Act before taking a position with the non-union arm of a unionized company.

Maybe you guys took a job at a non-union shop - from what I've read here you're the only union company at NetJets. Oh, wait - are you going after NJM next or do they not have anything you want to fly?

Seems like you've got a lot of anger on this issue for someone that supposedly doesn't have a dog in this fight.

Check my IP - I'm deployed. Everything I know about this stuff I got from reading your posts and guys like gunfyter, majik and bluepile on the union side and pilots like TCA and G4 for the Gulfstream side.

However, I'd like to find a good job when I get out of the military and it looks like you're sh!tting in the waterhole at this one so there'll be one less place to look.

Do I expect the NJI pilots to be initially happy about this. Hell no. Will they still have their jobs? Hell yes. Will they get to remain in their aircraft? Most likely. They may even get a pay raise. They may even like having a defined set of work rules and the protections they allow in case one of hundreds of management personalities ever try to slam dunk them for some perceived violation or petty disagreement.

Seems to me that the NJI guys don't want anything to do with your union or it's "protection" (sounds like something you'd buy from the Mob so your business doesn't accidently burn down).

 

[gunfyter]

However, I'd like to find a good job when I get out of the military and it looks like you're sh!tting in the waterhole at this one so there'll be one less place to look.

Get in line behind a couple thousand folks who got here first.

 

[Muddauber]

You missed the point, Guns. SeaSpray said he doesn't want to work at Netjets unless you knock-off the union thug stuff.

Muddy

 

[gunfyter]

Oh I got it. I just don't care.