Luthi as leader

[OPECJet]

Despite some of our differences one thing is certain:

If we all come together on one common goal during this next round of negotiations we will win the game!

The rules have changed and the ego involved is working against you this time.

 

[rajflyboy]

The rules have changed and the ego involved is working against you this time.

This has nothing to do with ego. The ideas are the same. Try to break a union with the same old same old. Strength in numbers will win every time! Hold strong.

 

[jtf]

As long as the union (this includes the regular members) keep the lies and half truths that management tells in the correct light- that they are lies and half truths. We must educate our fellow pilots to make sure the fear campaign they are already starting is mostly BS. I'm not saying they won't shrink the company and furlough more- I just believe they will do that either way with a good contract or with a POS. I'm low on the totem pole, but I'd much rather get furloughed and have a good job to come back to than to get a crappy contract and get furloughed anyway with plans B and C being the only reasonable options. Since the last round of furloughs I've come up with contingency plans and I've got a year of cash saved up to live on not including the furlough pay and unemployment benefits. I'm ready to go all-in to keep the job worthwhile. I hope the other junior pilots have been preparing for the worst and will be ready to rock when the time comes.

 

[BentOver]

The few junior (if going on 7 years is really junior!!) pilots I know are so fed up they would easily tell Hansell to shove it. Furlough or get off the pot. But in no way will they do the job for less. If anything they should be paid more!!

The company had no problem growing from '05-'08 with the higher paying contracts,medical bennies and 401k contributions. No reason they can't grow again when the economy allows.

If a customer spends almost as much for 1 trans-con flight as an SIC's yearly salary, then I see no reason to reduce pilot pay.

I'm with JTF on this one. If they intend to furlough, the contract WILL NOT be the deciding factor. IF they furlough they intended to do it anyways... No contract has ever saved a pilot group from the end result. Luckily, alot of the junior '05-'08 hires were from the regionals. We have seen this song and dance play out and won't fall for it.

I have no vote, but anything concessionary would be a definite NO VOTE for me, even if I was the most junior on the active list.

THE NJA EMT CAN TAKE THEIR THREATS AND SHOVE IT WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE

have a nice day whatever office personell are assigned to reading these message boards.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Hansell would have us all working for less than the 98 Contract or even the POSTA adjusted for inflation.

He was brought here to break us. That is all

 

[BentOver]

Unfortunately for him he is way to new at this aviation gig to understand that we've all seen this before... He may think he's got a good concessionary propoganda campaign going, and may be playing by the book. But we've all read the book many times before him.. He'll need to do much better...

The, "I'll cancell orders and furlough" song and dance is tired and played out.

 

[CE750Driver]

Hansell would have us all working for less than the 98 Contract or even the POSTA adjusted for inflation.

He was brought here to break us. That is all

Hate to break this to you Lord. Look at our payscales in 2004. Adjust it for 3.5 percent inflation for 8 years.

Sick yet? We are working for LESS, than if they had done that.

This group needs educated.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Hate to break this to you Lord. Look at our payscales in 2004. Adjust it for 3.5 percent inflation for 8 years.

Sick yet? We are working for LESS, than if they had done that.

This group needs educated.

That's what I was trying to say. Thanks for helping

 

[Lord Wakefield]

....and management was not already threatening pilots with further furloughs before the vote took place?

Very true.

 

[Pervis]

Hate to break this to you Lord. Look at our payscales in 2004. Adjust it for 3.5 percent inflation for 8 years.

Sick yet? We are working for LESS, than if they had done that.

This group needs educated.

And everyone thought and some still think RTS was such a great guy. He's no different than JH, who is doing all in his power to run a business with profit in mind. Employees be damned. The easiest way to save is to scare the kids and reduce overhead (wages) with idle threats through concessions. The year after claiming the second highest profit in company history? Sans sales?

Next time, look beyond the new pay scales and consider the need for both longevity and COLA adjustments, not to mention other QOL issues. We need to act and think like professionals, and not just in the cockpit.

 

[rajflyboy]

I am seeing that when it comes time to do the right thing >> We are all on the same page!

 

[BentOver]

The easiest way to save is to scare the kids and reduce overhead (wages) with idle threats through concessions. Next time, look beyond the new pay scales and consider the need for both QUOTE]


Just an FYI, using the word "kids" as a reference to what sounds like the juniot pilots is very demeaning. Maybe back in the day new hires or "the junior" pilots were quite young and inexperienced, I highly doubt those that are furloughed or junior are really kids. Some are close to retirement, some are possibly former legacy guys etc... Whatever the case I'm sure most have been around the block multiple times.

Just sayin, it's common practice for the senior guys to automatically assume newhires (or 7 year junior SIC's) are new to the game... This is not one of those times..

 

[Lord Wakefield]

We need to act and think like professionals, and not just in the cockpit.

Right on! That's the new motto.

And don't engage this Hansell guy in recurrent. Just look at the ceiling.

He's been here how long? And he only wants to talk to us now? Kinda reinforces the notion that he was only brought here to break the union and ram a POS contract through.
He's just an uglier Boisture.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

duplicate post

 

[Pervis]

Bent, I was not refering to junior pilots, but rather the fact we have pilots at all levels that act like children and panic when the boss says boo.

 

[OPECJet]

This has nothing to do with ego. The ideas are the same. Try to break a union with the same old same old. Strength in numbers will win every time! Hold strong.

You missed my point, and the ideas are not the same. In the past the largest ego in the room wanted to build a luxury brand and new he had to pay for it. He knew the pilots were the face of the company and accepted he'd have to pay for it.

The biggest ego in the room now isn't as easy to read. It was easy to see through Suckhole. He would do whatever it takes to replace the senile old SOB from Omaha. It's anybody's guess with The Caddy. Does he want to build a legacy / reputation within BH, or would he go back to lawyering? If he closes the doors on NJA over a labor dispute, I would think his goose would be cooked within BH and the business world as management. He would look like a rock star to the labor attorney world however.

 

[OPECJet]

Right on! That's the new motto.

And don't engage this Hansell guy in recurrent. Just look at the ceiling.

He's been here how long? And he only wants to talk to us now? Kinda reinforces the notion that he was only brought here to break the union and ram a POS contract through.
He's just an uglier Boisture.

What he said. Wear your NJASAP stuff the day he speaks. Crickets are pretty damn loud when there's no other sound.

 

[rajflyboy]

You missed my point, and the ideas are not the same. In the past the largest ego in the room wanted to build a luxury brand and new he had to pay for it. He knew the pilots were the face of the company and accepted he'd have to pay for it.

The biggest ego in the room now isn't as easy to read. It was easy to see through Suckhole. He would do whatever it takes to replace the senile old SOB from Omaha. It's anybody's guess with The Caddy. Does he want to build a legacy / reputation within BH, or would he go back to lawyering? If he closes the doors on NJA over a labor dispute, I would think his goose would be cooked within BH and the business world as management. He would look like a rock star to the labor attorney world however.

I see what you are saying and I do agree with you!

 

[Downwind]

Do you think if this country was invaded, the democrats and republicans would split, or join forces and obliterate the invaders?

Are you serious? No, they wouldn't come together. We are being invaded! 13 million illegals have crossed the border. Paramilitary groups have crossed and are operating inside our border. Our government is arming them and suing those here trying to stop the invasion. The Democrats have pulled up the skirt and said "have at it boys!" They've declared amnesty to illegals while ignoring the legislative branch of our government.

Article I Section 8 of our Constitution says congress has the power to repel invasions. Yet they haven't done a damn thing. They want to tell you what kind of light bulb you can have. They want to control your health care. They want to regulate the amount of Coca-Cola you can have. They want to worry about all of this BS that they aren't empowered to worry about and punt on what they're actually supposed to be doing.

Our forefathers would have started shooting a long time ago. It's time to get every single one of these worthless idiots out of there and its time to do it now. The changes necessary are going to hurt. But they're a whole lot better than the alternative.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Very well put Downwind!!!

 

[niteflyr]

This group needs educated.

I think so....

 

[rajflyboy]

Are you serious? No, they wouldn't come together. We are being invaded! 13 million illegals have crossed the border. Paramilitary groups have crossed and are operating inside our border. Our government is arming them and suing those here trying to stop the invasion. The Democrats have pulled up the skirt and said "have at it boys!" They've declared amnesty to illegals while ignoring the legislative branch of our government.

Article I Section 8 of our Constitution says congress has the power to repel invasions. Yet they haven't done a damn thing. They want to tell you what kind of light bulb you can have. They want to control your health care. They want to regulate the amount of Coca-Cola you can have. They want to worry about all of this BS that they aren't empowered to worry about and punt on what they're actually supposed to be doing.

Our forefathers would have started shooting a long time ago. It's time to get every single one of these worthless idiots out of there and its time to do it now. The changes necessary are going to hurt. But they're a whole lot better than the alternative.

Great Post!

 

[Praetorian]

Are you serious? No, they wouldn't come together. We are being invaded! 13 million illegals have crossed the border. Paramilitary groups have crossed and are operating inside our border. Our government is arming them and suing those here trying to stop the invasion. The Democrats have pulled up the skirt and said "have at it boys!" They've declared amnesty to illegals while ignoring the legislative branch of our government.

Article I Section 8 of our Constitution says congress has the power to repel invasions. Yet they haven't done a damn thing. They want to tell you what kind of light bulb you can have. They want to control your health care. They want to regulate the amount of Coca-Cola you can have. They want to worry about all of this BS that they aren't empowered to worry about and punt on what they're actually supposed to be doing.

Our forefathers would have started shooting a long time ago. It's time to get every single one of these worthless idiots out of there and its time to do it now. The changes necessary are going to hurt. But they're a whole lot better than the alternative.

Tinfoil hat?

But no, I think the party of 'no' should run with that message. The swing voters will eat it up!

 

[imacdog]

Everything that Downwind posted was spot on though. The second paragraph reads like a comedy routine or something out of 1984 but that is exactly what is happening now.

 

[Helmsalee]

Gotta go with Downwind.
Helm

 

[Downwind]

Tinfoil hat?

But no, I think the party of 'no' should run with that message. The swing voters will eat it up!

Tinfoil? Show me one thing in my post that is factually inaccurate.

 

[AeroBoy]

OK, Downwind, I'll tell you one thing that's 100% wrong in your rant: "They want to regulate the amount of Coca-Cola you can have." Congress has not told you or anyone else how much soda you can have. A very misguided New York City mayor and city council is trying to do this, but last time I checked they don't control Congress. So what you said is absolutely false.

As for "they want to tell you what kind of light bulb you can have," this bill was passed in 2007 with support from both parties (House 264-163, Senate 65-27), as well as industry, and was signed into law by President Bush. So it's blatantly false to project it as a Democrat plot to take control of you and the rest of America. Anyways, there's nothing stopping you from going out and buying enough incandescent bulbs to last you your entire lifetime.

Meanwhile, the "Fast and Furious" operation was started under the Bush Administration. Yes, there were epic blunders under both the Bush and Obama Administration over this, but it's no plot to arm your so-called "paramilitary" that wants to invade America. In any case, it's going to take much, much more than a couple hundred Mexican thugs with handguns to take over this country.

As far as illegals crossing the border, they're now crossing in record numbers–as in that I mean record lows. According to CBP, border crossings have decreased by 58 percent since 2008. Also, between 2004 and 2011, the number of border guards has doubled to almost 22,000. So Congress certainly hasn't been doing nothing about illegal border crossings. In fact, they've been doing more about it in the past few years than at any other time in U.S. history.

And let me end with the health care mandate, which was originally a Republican idea meant to enforce "individual accountability." It's also the same mandate that was passed in the Massachusetts health-care bill that was signed by then-Governor Mitt Romney, the same man who is the GOP presidential nominee that was for the individual mandate before he was against it. That's a classic definition of flip-flopper.

So much for nothing in your post being factually inaccurate...

 

[gret]

OK, Downwind, I'll tell you one thing that's 100% wrong in your rant: "They want to regulate the amount of Coca-Cola you can have." Congress has not told you or anyone else how much soda you can have. A very misguided New York City mayor and city council is trying to do this, but last time I checked they don't control Congress. So what you said is absolutely false.

As for "they want to tell you what kind of light bulb you can have," this bill was passed in 2007 with support from both parties (House 264-163, Senate 65-27), as well as industry, and was signed into law by President Bush. So it's blatantly false to project it as a Democrat plot to take control of you and the rest of America. Anyways, there's nothing stopping you from going out and buying enough incandescent bulbs to last you your entire lifetime.

Meanwhile, the "Fast and Furious" operation was started under the Bush Administration. Yes, there were epic blunders under both the Bush and Obama Administration over this, but it's no plot to arm your so-called "paramilitary" that wants to invade America. In any case, it's going to take much, much more than a couple hundred Mexican thugs with handguns to take over this country.

As far as illegals crossing the border, they're now crossing in record numbers–as in that I mean record lows. According to CBP, border crossings have decreased by 58 percent since 2008. Also, between 2004 and 2011, the number of border guards has doubled to almost 22,000. So Congress certainly hasn't been doing nothing about illegal border crossings. In fact, they've been doing more about it in the past few years than at any other time in U.S. history.

And let me end with the health care mandate, which was originally a Republican idea meant to enforce "individual accountability." It's also the same mandate that was passed in the Massachusetts health-care bill that was signed by then-Governor Mitt Romney, the same man who is the GOP presidential nominee that was for the individual mandate before he was against it. That's a classic definition of flip-flopper.

So much for nothing in your post being factually inaccurate...

Pretty nice commentary...good effort!

The illegals don't want to come here because Obama has messed up the economy so badly. They're not as stupid as Obama supporters. We added a bunch of border agents when nobody wants in.

The history of “Fast and Furious” is a little different that what you portrayed. It was a very small operation under the Bush administration and was shut down completely in 2007 when the Mexican government failed to arrest the culprits that had been identified. In October of 2009, the program was restarted on a much larger scale and it blew up. Today, the Democrats in Congress are threatening to support the Republicans in contempt hearings of the idiot Holder, who was in charge when things went sour.

The Mayor of New York was originally a Democrat, switched to the Republican Party, and eventual turned independent. He is a nut.

Advisors urged Obama to not pursue the health bill, but he just had to do it for Teddy. Personally, I’m in favor of some form of national healthcare, but he should have been focused the economy with competent advisors. If the Supreme Court comes out with a negative ruling on the healthcare bill…it speaks volumes of Obama’s competency to run this country.

Why do Obama supporters always want to blame someone else for their candidates’ failings? He's been in the saddle for three and half years and...we have a weaker economy, a more divided Congress, more lies coming from both political parties, 8+% unemployment for 40 something months, flight activity for business jets in the tank...and no hope if this joker, who thinks "the private sector is doing fine", is reelected.

OMG…Obama Must Go!

How do you starve an Obama supporter? Hide his food stamps under his work shoes.

 

[Praetorian]

Tinfoil? Show me one thing in my post that is factually inaccurate.

From Wikipedia:
A tin foil hat is a piece of headgear made from one or more sheets of aluminium foil or similar material. Alternatively it may be a conventional hat lined with foil. One may wear the hat in the belief that it shields the brain from electromagnetic fields; to prevent mind control and/or mind reading; or to limit the transmission of voices directly into the brain.

The concept of wearing a tin foil hat for protection from such threats has become a popular stereotype and term of derision; the phrase serves as a byword for paranoia and persecutory delusions, and is associated with conspiracy theorists.

 

[Praetorian]

How do you starve an Obama supporter? Hide his food stamps under his work shoes.[/B][/I]

Bigoted, dimwitted and shallow. Bravo!!