Luthi as leader

[BentOver]

I think Luthi should be recalled.... Done with his "scare the membership into support" tactics....If even 1 member resigned NJA for a 2nd rate job for fear of being furloughed that is 1 too many.

He has been wrong more than right.. He needs to stick to defending the contract. Not running the business. He relays not a single positive that occurs. And even if he mentions something positive he usually spins it into a negative. (Refurbs, WIFI, a/c orders etc...)

Has he made one mention of the Global or Phenoms. The fact that the first Global is 100% sold and already headed to paint? Or that the company claims Phenom sales are going well. Or that bids are out for Phenom positions? Has he mentioned enhancements to the Ferry Waiver program. Or even the change back to FiJi water?? Any mention of the new HQ being finished?

Most importantly did he mention that Eyer stated plain as day that there were NO PLANS FOR FURLOUGHS? Contrary to Luthi's constant furlough fodder.....


He, and many on the Eboard, do not have the ability to admit mistakes.. That is a fatal flaw.

 

[snoopy14]

I think Luthi should be recalled.... Done with his "scare the membership into support" tactics....If even 1 member resigned NJA for a 2nd rate job for fear of being furloughed that is 1 too many.

He has been wrong more than right.. He needs to stick to defending the contract. Not running the business. He relays not a single positive that occurs. And even if he mentions something positive he usually spins it into a negative. (Refurbs, WIFI, a/c orders etc...)

Has he made one mention of the Global or Phenoms. The fact that the first Global is 100% sold and already headed to paint? Or that the company claims Phenom sales are going well. Or that bids are out for Phenom positions? Has he mentioned enhancements to the Ferry Waiver program. Or even the change back to FiJi water?? Any mention of the new HQ being finished?

Most importantly did he mention that Eyer stated plain as day that there were NO PLANS FOR FURLOUGHS? Contrary to Luthi's constant furlough fodder.....


He, and many on the Eboard, do not have the ability to admit mistakes.. That is a fatal flaw.

Somebody gets it! +1

 

[Praetorian]

Outside looking in... Reading this thread, it looks like scabs and irrelevant furloughed pilots want Luthi recalled.

The rest of you showed your a$$ to management with this one. *News flash, your mangt. is laughing at you over this.

All of this will cause you trouble next year when your contract becomes amendable. Better stop the infighting and circle the wagons now.

Unparallelled stupidity.

 

[BentOver]

Outside looking in... Reading this thread, it looks like scabs and irrelevant furloughed pilots want Luthi recalled.

The rest of you showed your a$$ to management with this one. *News flash, your mangt. is laughing at you over this.

All of this will cause you trouble next year when your contract becomes amendable. Better stop the infighting and circle the wagons now.

Unparallelled stupidity.

Apparently someone who doesn't get it. I don't bad mouth those who don't want him recalled. They have their opinions, I have mine....

You have mistaken NJASAP with union weakness. It is not weakness to want a change in direction. Those that support the recall are not advocating concessions. Many of us have grown weary of the way Luthi handles business.

One other point you are mistaken in. Those irrevelent furloughees become very relevent upon return. And I'd bet we will remember the last couple of years more than a line pilot will.

 

[KiddDynomite]

Those irrelevant furloughees are just that irrelevant because they are not coming back. Open your eyes! The company is not purchasing aircraft in bulk, they're only allowing an airplane to be built when entirely sold. It sounds like great business but if the company was serious about susaining its size they would be buying in numbers greater than one. These deals were penned with intention of shrinking the compnay, 200-225 planes is the magical 10 year plan. The banana hammock management keeps talking about isn't about aircraft numbers but money! The only reason profit was shown last year is because of maintenance not performed. Why are all those Falcons parked with timed out engines? Because they cancelled the maintenance and that money is being shown as profit. The airframes themselves are showing on the books as being worth more than they are. The chickens are coming home to roost and more write downs are going to be taken this year and next so watch out! If you think this place is great you're polishing the brass on the Titanic. The company is in shrink mode. It's going to remain but how big is the question. Warren wants 200-225 planes and that's why JH is still around. He's following WB's plan to the letter. I hate saying this stuff but that's the way it is. If your seniority number is anything higher then say 1200 it's going to be the right seat for you after the next negotiation. Sure there will be jobs but will they be good ones and can you spend 20 years in the right seat at NJA? Those are the questions to ask yourself. Sorry.

 

[gret]

Outside looking in... Reading this thread, it looks like scabs and irrelevant furloughed pilots want Luthi recalled.

The rest of you showed your a$$ to management with this one. *News flash, your mangt. is laughing at you over this.

All of this will cause you trouble next year when your contract becomes amendable. Better stop the infighting and circle the wagons now.

Unparallelled stupidity.

What...you came out of your hole and dared to post?

 

[G4dude]

I think Luthi should be recalled.... Done with his "scare the membership into support" tactics....If even 1 member resigned NJA for a 2nd rate job for fear of being furloughed that is 1 too many.

He has been wrong more than right.. He needs to stick to defending the contract. Not running the business. He relays not a single positive that occurs. And even if he mentions something positive he usually spins it into a negative. (Refurbs, WIFI, a/c orders etc...)

Has he made one mention of the Global or Phenoms. The fact that the first Global is 100% sold and already headed to paint? Or that the company claims Phenom sales are going well. Or that bids are out for Phenom positions? Has he mentioned enhancements to the Ferry Waiver program. Or even the change back to FiJi water?? Any mention of the new HQ being finished?

Most importantly did he mention that Eyer stated plain as day that there were NO PLANS FOR FURLOUGHS? Contrary to Luthi's constant furlough fodder.....


He, and many on the Eboard, do not have the ability to admit mistakes.. That is a fatal flaw.

Right on. Kudos, Bent.

 

[G4dude]

Outside looking in... Reading this thread, it looks like scabs and irrelevant furloughed pilots want Luthi recalled.

The rest of you showed your a$$ to management with this one. *News flash, your mangt. is laughing at you over this.

All of this will cause you trouble next year when your contract becomes amendable. Better stop the infighting and circle the wagons now.

Unparallelled stupidity.

Praetorian, remember we don't want the union recalled, just Luthi. We don't want him doing the same thing to NJA that he did to Emery. He is trying to build his resume to get a job with a union hierarchy somewhere at our expense, it seems to me.

 

[BentOver]

Praetorian, remember we don't want the union recalled, just Luthi. We don't want him doing the same thing to NJA that he did to Emery. He is trying to build his resume to get a job with a union hierarchy somewhere at our expense, it seems to me.

I actually agree with G4's first entence... I'm a Union pilot 100%.. As good as I did landing on my feet after the furlough, I really hate the fact I am now non-union .. I don't want the Union changed, just the man at the top. I don't think he is near the best man to handle meetings/business etc...

I think Luthi has not represented what is occurring at NJA truthfully. Or as truthful as he could have been.

As far as his motives for building his resume. I do get the feeling (just my gut) that he has been building for something else. What that is I don't know.... First thought that comes to mind is Union organizer, with him as the head organizer......I don't personally know the guy, he has never made an appearance on the furloughed msg board, so it's all just a feeling....

I'm not a radical. Just my perspective from watching very closely over the last 3 years....

That may be the only time I agree even remotely with G4

 

[NETFLIER]

Those irrelevant furloughees are just that irrelevant because they are not coming back. Open your eyes! The company is not purchasing aircraft in bulk, they're only allowing an airplane to be built when entirely sold. It sounds like great business but if the company was serious about susaining its size they would be buying in numbers greater than one. These deals were penned with intention of shrinking the compnay, 200-225 planes is the magical 10 year plan. The banana hammock management keeps talking about isn't about aircraft numbers but money! The only reason profit was shown last year is because of maintenance not performed. Why are all those Falcons parked with timed out engines? Because they cancelled the maintenance and that money is being shown as profit. The airframes themselves are showing on the books as being worth more than they are. The chickens are coming home to roost and more write downs are going to be taken this year and next so watch out! If you think this place is great you're polishing the brass on the Titanic. The company is in shrink mode. It's going to remain but how big is the question. Warren wants 200-225 planes and that's why JH is still around. He's following WB's plan to the letter. I hate saying this stuff but that's the way it is. If your seniority number is anything higher then say 1200 it's going to be the right seat for you after the next negotiation. Sure there will be jobs but will they be good ones and can you spend 20 years in the right seat at NJA? Those are the questions to ask yourself. Sorry.

Only one word for the author of this post = LOST
This is the same scare tatic rhetoric BS Luthi writes.

 

[BentOver]

Only one word for the author of this post = LOST
This is the same scare tatic rhetoric BS Luthi writes.

+1


NJA management would not keep a couple hundred on the payroll if they were that overstaffed now or atleast didn't plan on growing sometime in the not so distant future. (think 2,3,4 years). Especially David Sokol.

Nor would they keep even more hundreds on the payroll if they were gonna continue to shrink anouther 200+ a/c....

Look, some of what Luthi says about the shrinkage does make a bit of sense. And "could" be a possibility. Then again anything is always a possibility in the industry. So really any rumor makes some sense.

What doesn't add up is the staffing numbers staying the same for over 2 years. Management basically telling everyone "NO FURLOUGHS PLANNED".. Think about it.. If you were a manager and knew you were gonna shrink, and also wanted concessions, what would you tell the rank and file? You'd want to put as much fear into their hearts as possible. get as much out of the "emergency" as possible.

Also, Luthi was very adamant that the Globals/Phenoms were all a figmant of managements imagination..... The sales team was not up to the challenge. Etc etc.... Form my ringside seat, it atleast looks like airplanes will be arriving on time. The delivery schedule is anyones guess. But with an ever improving economy, I'd put more money on the schedule increasing rather than decreasing.

I'm willing to debate any theory to the contrary as long as there is a supporting arguement. Simply saying NJA is still gonna shrink won't cut it. If you don't know the delivery schedule OR know what the contract between Bombardier and NJA is then I have a hard time believing planes will only arrive on an as needed basis.

I've tried to support my position as best I can. There are more reasons I think Luthi should resign, but they are more geared to furlough debacles over the last 2 years.

 

[jtf]

OK, everyone who wants Luthi gone, who do you want to take over? Who do you think would do better? Do you believe whoever you think will do better will take the job after seeing what happens if you lose the popularity contest? I am pretty low on the totem pole, but I do agree with most of what Luthi has done. So has the entire executive board- unanimously except on under 3% of the votes in the last year. While the doom and gloom gets old, I'd rather hear that and keep myself prepped in case the gloom comes true. I have seen the good signs that the company has given us, but I have also seen January and February start the year negative compared to last year as far as hours flown. The hours flown is why the company said we didn't need to furlough even though we are getting rid of more and more airframes. Sure, we have sold a couple of Phenoms and more than one Global, but we also just sold 2 more airplanes off last month and there still isn't a mid or super midsize order in. While I'm all for shopping around for the best deal, I have a bad feeling the only deals we will be taking will be not necessarily for what is really the best airframes, but probably who will take the most of our used airframes. Then we will see how low the hammock gets and whether or not Luthi is wrong. I'm not even sure how I feel about that. While it is good for the company to trade away airframes, I'm not sure how good it is for the bottom of the seniority list. Maybe they will sell more if they have to sell more if they can't just "profit" from trade ins, or maybe they truly are selling to the best of their ability and not being able to trade in will send us out the back door anyway. Either way, I'd prefer Luthi leading the way with a bit more friendliness, but leading the way nonetheless. We shall see how things go, whether or not the recall is accomplished. I sure hope the union can come back together after this nuclear option has run the course.

 

[BentOver]

I agree that some of the doom makes sense and could be a real possibility. The disposal of a/c is worrisome. Especially since no we haven't seen the potential delivery schedule of the new a/c...

What are your thoughts on pilots coming out of recurrent ground school (the Union meeting)last Fall, being almost certain they were out of a job this Spring? A direct result of whatever Luthi was saying...Not to be sarcastic, but Spring is definitely upon us and all we hear from management updates is everything is a-ok... (atleast the updates the furloughees can get)

 

[snoopy14]

Outside looking in... Reading this thread, it looks like scabs and irrelevant furloughed pilots want Luthi recalled.

The rest of you showed your a$$ to management with this one. *News flash, your mangt. is laughing at you over this.

All of this will cause you trouble next year when your contract becomes amendable. Better stop the infighting and circle the wagons now.

Unparallelled stupidity.

Scabs and irelevant furloughed pilots. Who's the scab? Do you really think the furloughed pilots are meaningless? Of course the rest of us are showing our a$$ to management. Praetorian your arguments go nowhere. Maybe next time you should articulate why Luthi should stay.

 

[Praetorian]

Scabs and irelevant furloughed pilots. Who's the scab?

The author of this thread G4 has previously toughed his willingness and enthusiasm for crossing picket lines at the first available opportunity.

Do you really think the furloughed pilots are meaningless?

No I said irrelevant. Because they have no vote on this question.

Of course the rest of us are showing our a$$ to management. Praetorian your arguments go nowhere. Maybe next time you should articulate why Luthi should stay.

I remember the uber-solidarity you guys had in 05 and what you were able to accomplish because of it. Sad to see that all lost to infighting. Your management will surely perceive this as weakness during your upcoming barganing and will attempt to parlay it into consessions. Unless you radically shore up your solidarity they will be successful.

Your groups' recent actions have shown them a fearfulness which they will surely exploit. In the end, pilots throughout the fractional industry will suffer for the NJ pilots foolishness once the chickens come home to roost.

 

[BentOver]

I agree that the solidarity from '05 that I keep hearing about definitely is not here currently.... I heard stories of people NOT upgrading so the junior people could upgrade therefore getting bypass pay for the rest.. (I think that's how it went down)


Now it appears since there is more money on the table and people have more too lose it has become a "sorry that sucks but it is what it is."

Hence the reason pilots picked up more than 1000 extended days through the first 9 months of 2011... (Which in a message from Luthi in late 2010, makes it understandable. He wrote a 411 basically saying "extended days have no influence on recalls or staffing")

Hey that's another mistake Luthi and Co. made.. Add it to the list.


But I have no doubt when it comes to the contract, money and QOL, the pilots still at NJA will stand strong against any form of concessionary offer from management.

 

[niteflyr]

Deja Vu

The author of this thread G4 has previously toughed his willingness and enthusiasm for crossing picket lines at the first available opportunity.

No I said irrelevant. Because they have no vote on this question.



I remember the uber-solidarity you guys had in 05 and what you were able to accomplish because of it. Sad to see that all lost to infighting. Your management will surely perceive this as weakness during your upcoming barganing and will attempt to parlay it into consessions. Unless you radically shore up your solidarity they will be successful.

Your groups' recent actions have shown them a fearfulness which they will surely exploit. In the end, pilots throughout the fractional industry will suffer for the NJ pilots foolishness once the chickens come home to roost.

We were able to achieve what we did because everyone was sick of the Union Leaders of the time telling us they knew what the pilots wanted. We kicked them to the curb and started Strong Union.

Sound familiar...

 

[BentOver]

We were able to achieve what we did because everyone was sick of the Union Leaders of the time telling us they knew what the pilots wanted. We kicked them to the curb and started Strong Union.

Sound familiar...

+1...... I just want truthful leader who doesn't get quoted in a popular publication that NJA safety has gone to sh!t

 

[Hawkered]

Luthi is the rogue. He would be happy to never fly a plane again and sit on his ass eating in restaurants while six year first officers pick up the tab with their dues for the rest of his life!

 

[nordo_2]

Luthi is the rogue. He would be happy to never fly a plane again and sit on his ass eating in restaurants while six year first officers pick up the tab with their dues for the rest of his life!

New Corcom is out. SICs at NetJets are now to be referred to as PFOs.