Look before you leap, NJASAP!

[realityman]

MM,

You make a valid point. We certainly don't want them sticking their heads into our local's business just any old time they feel like it. Would certainly slow things down for us, instead of helping.

HOWEVER, should they do absolutely nothing when ASKED for assistance by a group that sends them a great deal of money every month?

And again, I beg you to go back and read Bill O's numerous posts on the subject. He has told us several times that when he asked for their help, ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL, that in essence, they were nowhere to be found. You keep advocating that we need representation on the national level. Well, when we asked for help with it, it wasn't there. Like I said, don't take my word for it. Go back and read the information from the people who were directly involved. That's what I did.

When the FAA convened the FOARC to come up with the new 91K regs, NJA had reps there, including at least one individual from our own local. But where the heck was our representation from the IBT? What? Dealing with the FAA directly wasn't national enough for them?

Fact is, they have no clue about our side of the industry. And they simply refuse to learn. The plight of all labor is our plight too, up to a certain point. But there simply isn't any way they can effectively represent us on the national level if they don't even understand us. Heck, go and read it from our leaders. They've demonstrated how IBT doesn't really even understand the RLA!! That's pretty freaking significant! And not in a good way for us.

As for 60 years from now, you're right again. Who knows? But hey, it'll only be at the end of this contract when we can really determine if we did the right thing with this IBB. It'll only be at the end of the next president's term of office when we know if we elected the right person. It'll only be at the end of your career when you know if you invested your 401K properly. All we can do for now is take the information at hand and make the best decision possible. Our leaders have looked at this for a while now. The rank and file are getting much less time to evaluate things. But not everyone is a follower. You're not. And that's good. I try not to be, but I'm not as smart as many others, so prefer to look for the right questions asked by others and see what the answers are. Then evaluate and decide. From what I've seen, we need to get away from the IBT.

By the way, did you read any of the 'informational mailings' by Hoffa? What'd you think of him trying to take credit for the things our leaders, and WE THE PILOTS, accomplished without any help from them? Do you trust someone who would lie to the very people who are in the best position to know better? That not only makes them liars, but stupid to boot.

Maybe we will need a powerful representational voice in Washington in the future, but the IBT is on its way out. Something better will come along. Even if it's ourselves.

 

[netjetwife]

MM, the NJ pilots don't have the luxury of waiting to make up their minds; the time for action is now--at the beginning of a long contract in an era of cooperation with the Company --timing doesn't get any better than this. I agree with everything Realityman has posted. You say you're worried about the "game plan" for labor; then it should concern you that the IBT doesn't even get on the field when frac issues come up. All the potential things you think they could do for us can't stack up against the fact that they don't have the expertise, or even the motivation, to get involved. NJ pilots have talked to Teamster officials who don't even know who NJA is or that the pilots are in the IBT. That could be excused possibly, but what about the fact that they surveyed members and didn't have "pilot" as a possible labor group for the NJ pilot who got called?! :erm: That sums up their lack of interest quite well I think.

The decision is far from hasty. Pilots proposed it when we were leaving 284 and setting up 1108, but the timing wasn't right then. Obviously, the NJASAP leaders considered it carefully before sinking time and money into the decertification campaign. They read the pilot group correctly going by the way the cards poured in.

You ask good questions, MM, but I'm not sure they're even necessary. If you read the NJASAP website a lot of them would be answered and, as RM, points out, those that aren't can be voiced directly to the NJASAP Directors. As a leadership group they are visionary thinkers with ambition and concern for the industry. They've made themselves available for questions and can discuss their personal experiences in trying to get help from the Teamsters. A number of them (AV, ML, JB..off the top of my head) have posted on the subject in response to questions similar to yours. It seems that those of us posting on the thread with you aren't as bothered by the future because we've been following the discussion on the NJASAP board and reading up on the NJASAP plan. It's laid out and they take questions. Given your uncertainty it seems best for you to go directly to the source for answers. I recommend starting with the Board positions and their duty descriptions. You should find the info on the VP in charge of Industry Affairs quite interesting. http://njasap.com/library/bylaws.pdf

BTW, have you noticed that Bill Olsen resigned immediately from his position as EBoard President? He supports the NJASAP pilots and thinks the will of the pilot group should prevail. As the majority have already sent in their cards the direction they want to go seems clear. I don't see NJASAP as hasty; it is the next logical step for a group of professionals committed to superior representation for their members. NJW

 

[Mooneymite]

MM,

You make a valid point. We certainly don't want them sticking their heads into our local's business just any old time they feel like it. Would certainly slow things down for us, instead of helping.

HOWEVER, should they do absolutely nothing when ASKED for assistance by a group that sends them a great deal of money every month?

And again, I beg you to go back and read Bill O's numerous posts on the subject. He has told us several times that when he asked for their help, ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL, that in essence, they were nowhere to be found. You keep advocating that we need representation on the national level. Well, when we asked for help with it, it wasn't there. Like I said, don't take my word for it. Go back and read the information from the people who were directly involved. That's what I did.

When the FAA convened the FOARC to come up with the new 91K regs, NJA had reps there, including at least one individual from our own local. But where the heck was our representation from the IBT? What? Dealing with the FAA directly wasn't national enough for them?

Fact is, they have no clue about our side of the industry. And they simply refuse to learn. The plight of all labor is our plight too, up to a certain point. But there simply isn't any way they can effectively represent us on the national level if they don't even understand us. Heck, go and read it from our leaders. They've demonstrated how IBT doesn't really even understand the RLA!! That's pretty freaking significant! And not in a good way for us.

As for 60 years from now, you're right again. Who knows? But hey, it'll only be at the end of this contract when we can really determine if we did the right thing with this IBB. It'll only be at the end of the next president's term of office when we know if we elected the right person. It'll only be at the end of your career when you know if you invested your 401K properly. All we can do for now is take the information at hand and make the best decision possible. Our leaders have looked at this for a while now. The rank and file are getting much less time to evaluate things. But not everyone is a follower. You're not. And that's good. I try not to be, but I'm not as smart as many others, so prefer to look for the right questions asked by others and see what the answers are. Then evaluate and decide. From what I've seen, we need to get away from the IBT.

By the way, did you read any of the 'informational mailings' by Hoffa? What'd you think of him trying to take credit for the things our leaders, and WE THE PILOTS, accomplished without any help from them? Do you trust someone who would lie to the very people who are in the best position to know better? That not only makes them liars, but stupid to boot.

Maybe we will need a powerful representational voice in Washington in the future, but the IBT is on its way out. Something better will come along. Even if it's ourselves.

Realityman, thank you for your post.

I guess I have made my point that national representation is extremely important in the "big picture". Apparently you agree. I further agree that the IBT needs some significant changes if it is to fulfill its duties of representation.

Where I get confused is in the world of "He said/she said" between 1108 and IBT national. I read what Bill O. writes, I read what Hoffa writes and they do not jibe. As much as I trust and respect Olsen, I also know he is skilled at presenting "his-story" in a way favorable to his position. Hoffa is also "spinning the facts".

In most cases, the truth lies somewhere between the two advocates. I've had 40 years in aviation watching this stuff and I become more skeptical everyday. I've been lead astray by trusted leaders before who were doing their best, but they were just wrong. I should have asked more questions and demanded more answers.

You and I are in agreement in how we process our facts, but there is a difference in which facts we accept as the gospel. I am not discrediting what you say, but I'm not convinced the data you are using are "fact".

The good news is that I'm about done in this industry. The changes we are discussing will not affect me directly. I hope the crowd pushing for fragmentation is doing the right thing and it all works out. I really do. I only ask that we "look before we leap". There is far too much crowd following and thoughtless cheerleading to make me comfortable.

 

[realityman]

Realityman, thank you for your post.

I guess I have made my point that national representation is extremely important in the "big picture". Apparently you agree. I further agree that the IBT needs some significant changes if it is to fulfill its duties of representation.

Where I get confused is in the world of "He said/she said" between 1108 and IBT national. I read what Bill O. writes, I read what Hoffa writes and they do not jibe. As much as I trust and respect Olsen, I also know he is skilled at presenting "his-story" in a way favorable to his position. Hoffa is also "spinning the facts".

In most cases, the truth lies somewhere between the two advocates. I've had 40 years in aviation watching this stuff and I become more skeptical everyday. I've been lead astray by trusted leaders before who were doing their best, but they were just wrong. I should have asked more questions and demanded more answers.

You and I are in agreement in how we process our facts, but there is a difference in which facts we accept as the gospel. I am not discrediting what you say, but I'm not convinced the data you are using are "fact".

The good news is that I'm about done in this industry. The changes we are discussing will not affect me directly. I hope the crowd pushing for fragmentation is doing the right thing and it all works out. I really do. I only ask that we "look before we leap". There is far too much crowd following and thoughtless cheerleading to make me comfortable.

LOL!! At least we're on the same page.

But what I meant by Hoffa's 'interpretation' of things in his mailings is that he, and any of his national cronies, were NOT involved with our 2005 contract, and absolutely were NOT involved with the IBB. I don't have to take our elected leaders' word for it. I was there!! Not sure how long you've been with the company, but if you've been here for more than three years surely even you can see that Hoffa's letter was full of bald-faced lies.

I happen to be friends with the top guy on the strike committee. You know, the ones who set up the picketing, banners, advertising, and so forth, and I can assure you that even when asked, we received NO help from IBT.

I certainly can't verify every last word that comes out of Bill's mouth about what went on at the national level, which is where he's spent much of his focus, but based on the things I can directly verify, I'd have to say that Hoffa is a flat out liar. And stupid. Like I said before, who tries to lie to the people who are in the best position to know better?

If you weren't here for the contract in 2005, let me assure you, the info in the mailing from Hoffa is flat out FALSE!

Anyway, this train has too much momentum to stop now. No matter what happens, it's either going to be an interesting journey to watch, or a really spectacular train wreck to watch. At least it isn't boring!!!:beer:

 

[B19 Flyer]

MM, the NJ pilots don't have the luxury of waiting to make up their minds; the time for action is now--at the beginning of a long contract in an era of cooperation with the Company --timing doesn't get any better than this. I agree with everything Realityman has posted. You say you're worried about the "game plan" for labor; then it should concern you that the IBT doesn't even get on the field when frac issues come up. All the potential things you think they could do for us can't stack up against the fact that they don't have the expertise, or even the motivation, to get involved. NJ pilots have talked to Teamster officials who don't even know who NJA is or that the pilots are in the IBT. That could be excused possibly, but what about the fact that they surveyed members and didn't have "pilot" as a possible labor group for the NJ pilot who got called?! :erm: That sums up their lack of interest quite well I think.

The decision is far from hasty. Pilots proposed it when we were leaving 284 and setting up 1108, but the timing wasn't right then. Obviously, the NJASAP leaders considered it carefully before sinking time and money into the decertification campaign. They read the pilot group correctly going by the way the cards poured in.

You ask good questions, MM, but I'm not sure they're even necessary. If you read the NJASAP website a lot of them would be answered and, as RM, points out, those that aren't can be voiced directly to the NJASAP Directors. As a leadership group they are visionary thinkers with ambition and concern for the industry. They've made themselves available for questions and can discuss their personal experiences in trying to get help from the Teamsters. A number of them (AV, ML, JB..off the top of my head) have posted on the subject in response to questions similar to yours. It seems that those of us posting on the thread with you aren't as bothered by the future because we've been following the discussion on the NJASAP board and reading up on the NJASAP plan. It's laid out and they take questions. Given your uncertainty it seems best for you to go directly to the source for answers. I recommend starting with the Board positions and their duty descriptions. You should find the info on the VP in charge of Industry Affairs quite interesting. http://njasap.com/library/bylaws.pdf

BTW, have you noticed that Bill Olsen resigned immediately from his position as EBoard President? He supports the NJASAP pilots and thinks the will of the pilot group should prevail. As the majority have already sent in their cards the direction they want to go seems clear. I don't see NJASAP as hasty; it is the next logical step for a group of professionals committed to superior representation for their members. NJW

Pilot's wife with an agenda she's entitled to. Too bad she doesn't personally work in the industry or draw a paycheck from NJ.

The other posts around it appear credible.

Either way, the internal bickering supports my opinion about unions. The turmoil never ends.

Hey, Y'all, watch this! (especially the FLOPS pilots.)

 

[Mooneymite]

LOL!! At least we're on the same page.
....
Anyway, this train has too much momentum to stop now. No matter what happens, it's either going to be an interesting journey to watch, or a really spectacular train wreck to watch. At least it isn't boring!!!:beer:

I'll drink to that. Thank you for letting me have my say.

Can we let this thread die now before the shrill voices drag it down again?

 

[Diesel]

Can we let this thread die now before the shrill voices drag it down again?

Awww common I've heard NJW's voice and it isn't that bad.

 

[netjetwife]

Well thanks, Diesel.... You know, my debate points are pretty good , too.

MM, dragging down a thread isn't my style. I am known for my efforts to pull up morale and I am confident that I hold the moral high ground.

 

[Mooneymite]

Well thanks, Diesel.... You know, my debate points are pretty good , too.

MM, dragging down a thread isn't my style. I am known for my efforts to pull up morale and I am confident that I hold the moral high ground.

Your posts speak for themselves.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Well thanks, Diesel.... You know, my debate points are pretty good , too.

MM, dragging down a thread isn't my style. I am known for my efforts to pull up morale and I am confident that I hold the moral high ground.

Actually, you don't hold the moral high ground. I'm not the only one that is of the opinion that you are long winded and don't understand the reality of the job at hand. Everytime somebody disagrees with you , it's name calling and more disrespect. Go get yourself a flight certificate and put a couple of flight legs on instead of those stupid boots. Until then, you are still only a pilot's wife.

Your continued and unforgivable disrespect to non-pilot fractional employees is disgusting as it gets. Post after post, you say how you'll support the pilots, but the rest of the company and employee base just gets tossed aside for your own interests.

No, you don't hold the moral high ground.

And dragging a thread down is exactly what you do best.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Realityman, thank you for your post.

I guess I have made my point that national representation is extremely important in the "big picture". Apparently you agree. I further agree that the IBT needs some significant changes if it is to fulfill its duties of representation.

Where I get confused is in the world of "He said/she said" between 1108 and IBT national. I read what Bill O. writes, I read what Hoffa writes and they do not jibe. As much as I trust and respect Olsen, I also know he is skilled at presenting "his-story" in a way favorable to his position. Hoffa is also "spinning the facts".

In most cases, the truth lies somewhere between the two advocates. I've had 40 years in aviation watching this stuff and I become more skeptical everyday. I've been lead astray by trusted leaders before who were doing their best, but they were just wrong. I should have asked more questions and demanded more answers.

You and I are in agreement in how we process our facts, but there is a difference in which facts we accept as the gospel. I am not discrediting what you say, but I'm not convinced the data you are using are "fact".

The good news is that I'm about done in this industry. The changes we are discussing will not affect me directly. I hope the crowd pushing for fragmentation is doing the right thing and it all works out. I really do. I only ask that we "look before we leap". There is far too much crowd following and thoughtless cheerleading to make me comfortable.

Look, forget the fact that it’s a union, let’s talk about basic business.

Every corporation needs horsepower one way or another. The money put toward IBT national gives 1108 horsepower if they need it. Once split off, they will lose that national standing with big brother. Netjets has Berkshire Hathaway. As an example, if something goes upside down, NJ has horsepower that no other fractional has.

There are too many unexpected things that can happen in aviation where a union feels that it is necessary to intervene. I say it that way, because in my opinion, air carriers the size of NJ can take care of their own, but when unions feel like that have to get involved, the best way to protect their pilots is to have all the resources available.

In good times it’s easy to believe that splitting away from IBT is a good thing because IBT wasn’t paying a lot of attention during the recent negotiations. Also, where everything is all fine and wonderful it is easy to believe that the “premium” that is being paid to IBT is wasted.

In fact, it’s an insurance policy that supplies the muscle that locally, NJASAP will never have. For the next 20 years, there may never be an issue that IBT national has to intervene in, but if there is an event, you realize how big a mistake that it was to need them and have them turn away laughing when you really need the help.

Splitting away from IBT is a huge mistake.

 

[Fozzy]

*yawn*

 

[netjetwife]

Yyyyaaaawwwnnn. Foz, that's contagious. Nudge me when something other than FUD is posted...

 

[gutshotdraw]

Splitting away from IBT is a huge mistake.

If B19 thinks it's a mistake, NJASAP is probably on the right track........

 

[netjetwife]

Not only are they on the right track, they're blazing a new trail in the frac industry. The majority of pilots posting here agree with NJASAP leaders that it's the right thing to do. Not to mention the 70% plus NJA pilots who have already voiced their determination to gain their independence by sending in cards and donations. For those involved in the collection, checking the mail isn't a chore--it's an honor.

A public thanks to each NJ pilot on the honor roll. 2000 of you so far...in just 3 weeks!! That's awesome! Your unity, camaraderie, and focus on the future is a source of pride that all NJ pilots (both A&I) can share. You do not need the Teamsters. You have one another, the support of your families, partnership with the Company, and the respect of your peers in aviation. Kudos to you all! NJW

 

[acaTerry]

quote]




Realtyman, you may not want to fund the truckers' fight, but you miss a very important truth: labor must stick together. .

This one line sums up the reason for NJASAP. Teamsters didn't stick with us, but was right there to take their money. To me this is like sending money to the bank and then not being allowed to withdraw it. My card is in.

 

[acaTerry]

She is entitled to her opinion and can say anything she wants, no matter how disrespectful it is to aviation professionals in the fractional as well as other aviation entities by her statements as to the method of which they have invested in their careers.
You are more guilty of that than ANYONE I have seen on this board.

I don't like unions from personal experience and have never seen a union do anything good for a company as a whole.
There's this place called NJA, heard of it?

She is nothing more than a pilot's wife. She hasn't invested in a career in aviation. She hasn't paid her dues, doesn't personally draw a paycheck and can only ride on the coat-tails of he husband.
This is particularly offensive. Any woman who goes through a career in aviation and sticks with her man is a gem. Having to be alone so many nights, be able to switch gears from head of household one week to settling back the next is not easy. Especially if you have kids. So she does not draw a check? BIG F-ING DEAL! Is that your measure of a human being? I rather like the idea that my wife raises decent, upstanding kids than chases money while the kids are out spraypainting walls and such. You must be divorced.

She writes pages to discredit my opinion of unions, yet when I point out facts and attitudes she has that are detrimental to the industry, she calls me names and says that I twist words. Not true.
You sound like a 4th grader crying to his teacher. Waah! NJW is picking on me!

See above...

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks, for sticking up for frac families, 'Terry. We have 3 kids and I do have to switch gears constantly. The lifestyle isn't easy and those frac families that are underpaid have it the worst. I can totally sympathize with them because a few years ago my husband was only paid 28K a year. Our frac families at the bottom of the ladder are hard pressed to make ends meet, much less be able to afford any breaks or treats to make the lifestyle easier. As a stay-home mom I'm in the most overlooked, under-respected class of workers out there. For the fudspinner to suggest that I don't respect non-pilot workers is total garbage.
Thanks again!
Netjetwife

PS The frac lifestyle requires kids to make a lot of sacrifices, too. Frac kids deserve to have one parent home with them full-time and as the children of professionals it damn well should be financially possibly. The fact that for many frac families it isn't is completely unacceptable. They deserve college-savings accounts, too. But how many of our underpaid frac pilots can put the money aside?

 

[cjs]

Thanks, for sticking up for frac families, 'Terry. We have 3 kids and I do have to switch gears constantly. The lifestyle isn't easy and those frac families that are underpaid have it the worst. I can totally sympathize with them because a few years ago my husband was only paid 28K a year. Our frac families at the bottom of the ladder are hard pressed to make ends meet, much less be able to afford any breaks or treats to make the lifestyle easier. As a stay-home mom I'm in the most overlooked, under-respected class of workers out there. For the fudspinner to suggest that I don't respect non-pilot workers is total garbage.
Thanks again!
Netjetwife

I feel like I'm watching one of those "Save the Children" infomercials. You and your husband made a CHOICE stick it out in aviation. Don't even try to compare yourself with someone who really is up s**t creek. Makes about as much sense as someone complaining about how hard it is to make a living polisihing turds. You knowingly walk into a lake of fire and want sympathy?

And what do you care what other people think about stay at home moms? Are you in it for yourself or your family? So much outrage, so much victimhood ..

PS The frac lifestyle requires kids to make a lot of sacrifices, too. Frac kids deserve to have one parent home with them full-time and as the children of professionals it damn well should be financially possibly. The fact that for many frac families it isn't is completely unacceptable. They deserve college-savings accounts, too. But how many of our underpaid frac pilots can put the money aside?

Nobody deserves anything they haven't earned. Who are you to decide what person A deserves over person B? You think pilots deserve more than A&P guys (pardon me, "support folk) because you're married to a pilot. Why the h*ll should anyone care what you think someone deserves?

Let them decide what they "deserve" when they negotiate their hiring package. If the company rejects it, either take your lumps or hit the road .. but don't drag anyone else into this BS.

 

[acaTerry]

I feel like I'm watching one of those "Save the Children" infomercials. You and your husband made a CHOICE stick it out in aviation. Don't even try to compare yourself with someone who really is up s**t creek. Makes about as much sense as someone complaining about how hard it is to make a living polisihing turds. You knowingly walk into a lake of fire and want sympathy?

And what do you care what other people think about stay at home moms? Are you in it for yourself or your family? So much outrage, so much victimhood ..



Nobody deserves anything they haven't earned. Who are you to decide what person A deserves over person B? You think pilots deserve more than A&P guys (pardon me, "support folk) because you're married to a pilot. Why the h*ll should anyone care what you think someone deserves?

Let them decide what they "deserve" when they negotiate their hiring package. If the company rejects it, either take your lumps or hit the road .. but don't drag anyone else into this BS.

Arrgh, methinks this clown needs the ole NJW boot

 

[realityman]

I feel like I'm watching one of those "Save the Children" infomercials. You and your husband made a CHOICE stick it out in aviation. Don't even try to compare yourself with someone who really is up s**t creek. Makes about as much sense as someone complaining about how hard it is to make a living polisihing turds. You knowingly walk into a lake of fire and want sympathy?

And what do you care what other people think about stay at home moms? Are you in it for yourself or your family? So much outrage, so much victimhood ..



Nobody deserves anything they haven't earned. Who are you to decide what person A deserves over person B? You think pilots deserve more than A&P guys (pardon me, "support folk) because you're married to a pilot. Why the h*ll should anyone care what you think someone deserves?

Let them decide what they "deserve" when they negotiate their hiring package. If the company rejects it, either take your lumps or hit the road .. but don't drag anyone else into this BS.

Someone needs a hug........

 

[B19 Flyer]

Someone needs a hug........

I agree.

All those poor FLOPS union supporters that have been waiting for over two years for 1108 to get it done. :crying:

 

[Willy21]

All those poor FLOPS union supporters that have been waiting for over two years for 1108 to get it done. :crying:

What is really sad is they have also been waiting on management to get it done for over two years. That is why they turned to the 1108.

 

[netjetwife]

I feel like I'm watching one of those "Save the Children" infomercials. I was sharing the family perspective with pilots who wished to discuss it. Nothing was asked of you. You and your husband made a CHOICE stick it out in aviation. And due to collective efforts backing good leadership it has paid off. The NJ pilots took control of their career destiny and the Options pilots are doing the same. Don't even try to compare yourself with someone who really is up s**t creek. Those who follow the frac industry are aware that I was actually comparing myself favorably with other frac spouses (who have a lot in common) because the NJ pilots are better paid. Makes about as much sense as someone complaining about how hard it is to make a living polisihing turds. You knowingly walk into a lake of fire and want sympathy? That's a personal choice I leave to the readers. I referred to economic inequities and the reality that the frac lifestyle isn't the norm and can be difficult. Those frac pilots being underpaid are the ones I sympathize with. If you don't that's your prerogative; they have a great deal of support from their peers so yours won't be missed.

And what do you care what other people think about stay at home moms? Are you in it for yourself or your family? So much outrage, so much victimhood .. You jumped into the middle of an ongoing conversation so you're misapplying the underlying tone of outrage. My family feels strongly that we are doing what is best for our children and we think that other frac families should be in the financial position to do likewise if they so choose. The pilots have the same job so their families should have similar opportunities.

Nobody deserves anything they haven't earned. Society at large believes that children deserve a good education. Parents view it as a responsibility. Frac pilots certainly earn (thus deserve) a salary that provides college funds for their kids. NJ kids have college savings accounts and Ops kids should, too. Who are you to decide what person A deserves over person B? You think pilots deserve more than A&P guys (pardon me, "support folk) because you're married to a pilot. Why the h*ll should anyone care what you think someone deserves? This isn't about personal opinion. I'm addressing economic reality and basic fairness. Obviously the frac pilots themselves (and for CS also the managers) are looking at the industry standard and comparing it to their own situation. I don't follow A&P compensation, but I think those workers should also get the going rate for their job skills. Parity isn't exclusive to pilots and I didn't suggest it is. I post on what I know and the causes that I follow. Let them decide what they "deserve" when they negotiate their hiring package. If the company rejects it, either take your lumps or hit the road .. but don't drag anyone else into this BS.

The Options pilots voted as a group to work together to improve their job situation--that's their legal right. There is a going rate for frac pilots and they are negotiating to get the contract they are due by virtue of the duties performed and their responsibility for lives and aircraft.

CJS, could you please tell us your job position, employer and family status so that we may understand the basis of your perspective? NJW

 

[B19 Flyer]

CJS, could you please tell us your job position, employer and family status so that we may understand the basis of your perspective? NJW

ROFL, that is the first question asked of me when I started to disagreee with the union supporters.

NJW, the only reason you ask is so the union mongers on this board can find ways to silence him, just as all of you have tried to silence me.

Whatever his job position, employer and family status is will be meaningless in this conversation because all the people on this board will make up whatever they want to just like they have me.

He makes sense and doesn't agree with you.

How long is it going to be before you begin calling him names like you do me?

 

[B19 Flyer]

What is really sad is they have also been waiting on management to get it done for over two years. That is why they turned to the 1108.

Wrong.

1108 was the "hired gunslinger" that replaced the prior union at NJ and got it done quickly.

1108 didn't get it done at FLOPS.

Don't blame management, they have a company to run.

1108 was hired by the union supporters to force a CBA on a company that traditionally management, clients or non-pilot employees sure as hell didn't want on the property.

The ecomomy is slipping, 1108 has yet to get it done.

The union supporters at FLOPS all need a hug. :crying:

 

[netjetwife]

What is really sad is they have also been waiting on management to get it done for over two years. That is why they turned to the 1108.

The path to a contract is typically paved with broken promises and the Options pilots have certainly had their share. That is why they turned to 1108 and stood up for their right to negotiate a contract. Before 1108 their efforts to improve things were unorganized. Under 1108 they went to the bargaining table and they're right on track. First contracts take an average of 3 years because management often drags the process out. The latest barrage of FUD directed at the Ops pilotgroup is a good indicator that they're making progress... The phrase--darkest before the dawn--is how I'd describe things in the final months before the NJ pilots got their 2005 contract. The process often follows a predictable pattern. Hang in there guys! There's light at the end of the tunnel... NJW

A request to board members: Please do not quote my posts without my permission (personal friends are exempt) my words are my own and lately it has been necessary to protect the integrity of my posts. Thanks for your understanding in this matter.

 

[Diesel]

A request to board members: Please do not quote my posts without my permission (personal friends are exempt) my words are my own and lately it has been necessary to protect the integrity of my posts. Thanks for your understanding in this matter.

Popcorn... Check
Beer.... Check

 

[Ultra Grump]

Lol!!

 

[SCT]

Quote:
A request to board members: Please do not quote my posts without my permission (personal friends are exempt) my words are my own and lately it has been necessary to protect the integrity of my posts. Thanks for your understanding in this matter.
Popcorn... Check
Beer.... Check


Diesel, you are going be getting a registered letter from NJW's attorney since you quoted her without permission. All of her gibberish is copyrighted don't you know.......