Look before you leap, NJASAP!

[Ultra Grump]

Anyone who reads ibt1108.com or njasap.com knows there are certain people (read not all) who have absolutely no substance to their posts. "Whatever the pres wants to do, lets do it, and give no thought. Rah rah rah. Woo Hoo!" I filter that nonsense and hope others do the same. Again I say there is good poop here. I welcome good, intelligent debate.

Tell me about it. I want to strangle some of these guys for wallpapering the boards with essentially the same cheerleading crap over and over again. I'm in favor of the split, but some of those guys need to give it a rest.

 

[Hawker dude]

what it really comes down to is YOU ARE A PILOT.

you are not a truck driver you are not a bus driver.

have you ever pulled over at 40,000 ft. to check the engine?

wake up

You are a pilot. You deserve a good living.

we as pilots all deserve everything we have worked for.

do some of you look at your family and wonder why there are still some pilot's out there that are still willing to stab you in the back

we all need to come together. 1 UNION. lets do it.

 

[captain dad]

For those that really want to debate, what is one good valid reason for keeping the teamsters?

 

[Starman]

All the pictures of hot chicks in the Teamster magazine.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

what it really comes down to is YOU ARE A PILOT.

you are not a truck driver you are not a bus driver.

have you ever pulled over at 40,000 ft. to check the engine?

wake up

You are a pilot. You deserve a good living.

we as pilots all deserve everything we have worked for.

do some of you look at your family and wonder why there are still some pilot's out there that are still willing to stab you in the back

we all need to come together. 1 UNION. lets do it.

A frickin men. That is awesome. Same thing I have been preaching at my current (soon to be my previous) el crappo workplace. Management looks at pilots (most of us with 4 year degrees) flying a Citation Bravo in the air ambulance roll the same way they look at high school dropouts with GEDs driving ground ambulances. It's the main reason I came to NetJets.

 

[netjetwife]

For those that really want to debate, what is one good valid reason for keeping the teamsters?

My son's grade. The 6th grade debate class was asked to describe things you'd find in a football stadium. The longer the answer the more points awarded. Morgan's creative response impressed the teacher so much that he got max points in spite of his 2 word answer--Jimmy Hoffa. Surprised that Morgan knew about Hoffa, much less where he was supposedly buried, I asked where he got his info--history channel. Oh... So I guess we don't need the Teamsters for debate answers...

Seriously, CD I can't think of one thing the IBT has (and having doesn't guarantee receiving, remember) that the NJA pilots can't get, or do, on their own. Morgan's amusing story aside, it isn't any fun for pilots to belong to a National organization that's the butt of jokes. Many are tired of the stigma and unprofessional image attached to the Teamsters. Getting nothing for their dues only adds insult to injury.

The above situation applies to the NJA pilots--not to the Options pilotgroup which is much smaller and currently at the bargaining table. The Ops situation is where the IBT is a good insurance policy. NJASAP leaders agree that belonging to the Teamsters was a good idea in the past, but the NJA group is ready to stand alone. They have outgrown the IBT. NJA pilots no longer need Teamsters providing security at picketing events. They need aviation experts lobbying for frac interests. The IBT was asked to provide that help but it's not a priority to them. With so many airline ramp workers, when it comes to issues like user fees, they aren't even on the same side as the frac pilots. NJ pilots are in the best position to step out ahead and represent the industry. I hope the other frac pilots will wish them well. NJW

When you're stuck in a rut pull yourself up by the boot straps and move on.

 

[fischman]

. They need aviation experts lobbying for frac interests. The IBT was asked to provide that help but it's not a priority to them. With so many airline ramp workers, when it comes to issues like user fees, they aren't even on the same side as the frac pilots.
When you're stuck in a rut pull yourself up by the boot straps and move on.

Kind of pointless to align and AID the people working against you isn't it? (GA user fees).

 

[netjetwife]

Yes Fisch, certainly pointless when you have a better alternative. The NJ pilots are ready to solo. On the other hand, being in the IBT is the best option for the FltOps pilots right now. From my PM exchange with one of their leaders I gather that their pilotgroup understands the reality of the situation.

Those who have been reading the board for the last few years may recall the pitch I made to all the frac pilots to show support for the NJA pilots during their contract negotiations. I stated that the bar needed to be raised and it made perfect sense for the largest and only unionized (at that time) group to lead the way. I predicted that a good contract at NJA would help pull up wages across the industry. We're seeing that happen. I'm now suggesting that the NJA pilot group is in the best position to take on the task of promoting the interests of the frac industry. I'm again asking the other frac pilots to lend their moral support to the NJ pilots with supportive posts and encouraging words when you cross paths in the FBOs. NJW

 

[airjackson]

do some of you look at your family and wonder why there are still some pilot's out there that are still willing to stab you in the back

we all need to come together. 1 UNION. lets do it.

Interesting question when talking about the IBT. Don't forget that they were the ones who rushed to organize the GoJet pilots when that company was formed in direct violation of the Trans States pilots CBA.

One Union selling another Union under the bus.

F-ck the IBT.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Generally, one gets sold down the river or thrown under the bus. Not sure how one gets sold under the bus.

 

[airjackson]

...been a long day.

Whether it was thrown under the bus or sold down the river, the Teamsters did not do any pilots a favor by organizing what was clearly a union busting operation. Good luck to the NJ pilots and F-the IBT!

 

[Cargoav8or]

I think the age 60 ruling was a perfect example of why independents are NOT potent in the area of public policy/law. As I watched the age 60 rule unfold, SWAPA was totally powerless until ALPA got involved.

Funny how two people can see the same event and come away with such different views!

I guess that's what keeps Flightinfo.com a lively place.

DEAD WRONG!!!! Alpa put out a vote and it returned with a small majority in favor of keeping age 60 (I voted to keep it). Once ALPAs board realized they were powerless to keep age 60 they switched their position to help write the rules. It was going thru with or without ALPO.

ALPAs greed is running away. One example, the board voted to change the way they were payed after 911 so they would not fall victim to the paycuts and the list goes on and on. ALPA is done.

 

[netjetwife]

...been a long day.

Whether it was thrown under the bus or sold down the river, the Teamsters did not do any pilots a favor by organizing what was clearly a union busting operation. Good luck to the NJ pilots and F-the IBT!

'Jackson, UG was just teasing; we definitely got your message. Thanks for taking the time to post even after a long day and thanks for your support. I can't imagine that the NJ pilots would elect to remain with the IBT, especially after Hoffa's letter to the pilotgroup. To give you just one example among many aggravating ones...Hoffa gave credit for the 2007 IBB contract to the Teamsters when the national wasn't even aware that negotiations were taking place. (bet 1108 would have heard from them if the dues were late) Then after learning of the NJ pilots' success they failed to give them even one word of credit/congratulations in their monthly magazine...

I was interested to read that "the strong 2005 CBA was the first contract for the NJ pilots" (paraphrased). Hardly! While it may be quite accurate to say it was the first strong contract they had acquired (due entirely to the pilots' efforts only), the NJ pilots had been working under a contract for years...

Regarding the question of whether to leave the IBT, or not, let me put it this way: How many of you guys would keep dating a woman who couldn't pick you out in a crowd, and had such little interest in the relationship that she didn't bother to remember basic facts about you?

Those who refuse to give credit where it is due should be given the boot

 

[NJAPLT]

Regarding the question of whether to leave the IBT, or not, let me put it this way: How many of you guys would keep dating a woman who couldn't pick you out in a crowd, and had such little interest in the relationship that she didn't bother to remember basic facts about you?

Is she hot (or at least easy?)

 

[superfly]

Card is in!

In the 80's IBT had a flight department and that's the closest the've come to knowing anything about aviation.

I will Drink Griz and Bill O's Koolaid all day. Teamsters need to go asap!

 

[netjetwife]

NJAPLT, I should have put a disclaimer in my post. Better late than never....Those of you with low standards and high testosterone levels are exempt from participating in the survey...

The rest of you need to put your boots on. NJASAP (SU2) needs you to sign and mail those cards in while spreading the word. Those of you who helped vacate 284 please reassure the new guys that the future is brighter on the other side.
Thanks,
NJW

 

[Grizz]

With all the shenanigans the Teamsters have been up to this week, we probably will have the card drive completed in the next 7-10 days. Seeing as we only launched this thing on March 17th, we're pleased with the support we're getting from the pilots.

 

[netjetwife]

Agreed, if the present rate continues. I'm personally hoping the NJ pilots will hit the 85% mark, though. Yes, guys, I'm being optimistic again, but to me it's an easy decision. Are you going home with the foul-mouthed broad who can't remember your name or are you gonna dance with the good-looker who brought you to the present (IBB) celebration party?

In light of the recent shenanigans, it's time to keep up your heels and make a fuss. Flood the mailbox...

 

[B19 Flyer]

The NJ pilots are ready to solo. On the other hand, being in the IBT is the best option for the FltOps pilots right now.

You never stop with the insults and doublespeak.

You basically say that the Flight Options pilots need national help and the NJ pilots don't.

You advocate that NJ pilots bail out on IBT and leave the Flight Options pilots in the middle of critical negotiations.

You advocate solidarity in the industry, yet support splitting NJ pilots into an in-house union where it is well known that NJ is for the most part the loudest voice in the industry.

You support 1108 and the IBT, then once the contract is done you support splitting the relationship because IBT is too expensive and 1108 gets nothing out of it.



You can add this to the ever famous insulting doublespeak previously documented as:

• The insults to all non-pilot employees about them not investing properly in thier careers by not being pilots.
• Your husband gets paid for "volunteering" for the union and not flying revenue for NJ.

It goes on and on. Insult after insult of people that are innocent bystanders. People like you just don't get it.


I have core basic values when it come to by union dislikes. One of the biggest is the ongoing and never ending turmoil caused by the existence of unions. Once again NJW, you make my case for me.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

RRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Get back in your hole, B.