Look before you leap, NJASAP!

[Guitar Guy]

I think he's being sarcastic....

I think you missed the point of my post. I wasn't responding to JungleJett (note that I did not quote his post), but rather stating something for the other readers of this thread. Some people still think that NetJets is somehow an "airline".

 

[Dr Pepper]

Over 1000 cards in and counting.

Same people, same pilots, same union, just not giving IBT money for nothing.

No Brainer.

We Win Again!:laugh:

The card says you are interested in voting. It does not say you will vote for NJAASAP.

My card has been sent, but I still hold my vote.

Mooneymite is expressing concerns that many others have as well. Good for him. Shame on those that can't listen to another viewpoint. This thread has some good info in it, once I filter the BS from the rah-rah team.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Some people still think that NetJets is somehow an "airline".

If we're not, why do they insist on dressing us like one?:uzi:

 

[JungleJett]

ALPA has done some good things in the past and probably will in the future....but they cannot adequately represent so many competing interest effectively. They have shown that countless times and most recently with the age 65 rule. ALPA went down faster than a lawyer in a V-tail on that and in doing so, screwed an entire generation of current and future airline pilots. Why..upper end of the pay scale means more dues money collected and the folks at national keep their cushy jobs.

ALPA knows nothing of unity. ZERO! Their battle cry is unity but when the larger part of the membership speaks, they turn a deaf ear. And to say that other pilot unions have ridden on the coat tails of ALPA ignores the hard work of those members who enjoy their own union.

While you feel that certain airlines have done little to effect public policy, the companies themselves have changed the way people view airline travel..and some of that may be attributable to the relationship those "non-ALPA" companies have with their employees.

We do not have to be part of some huge union to be represented properly. ALPA has proven that even with its size, it can and has had, at times, little pull in DC. The IBT has not chosen to represent our interest and it may be time to do it ourselves. I think the fractional industry may be better served ultimately by a standalone fractional union.

Guitar...my point was that I have heard from more than one ALPA rep that the ideal of bringing frac pilots into the ALPA fold has been loosely discussed. Probably bar talk but still scary. I do not want ALPA on property...EVER!

We are not an airline nor do I want to EVER be considered one. My airline pilot days are behind me and I am glad for it. One trip to EWR reminded me of that.

Ultra Grump, you make my point, exactly.

APA and SWAPA have prospered in an environment ALPA created, but they have not contributed; in fact, they have weakened ALPA strength and unity by not joining forces.

Yes, they have done well short term. They are enjoying the fuits of ALPA efforts, but as ALPA goes, so go APA, SWAPA and all the other "independents".


SWAPA and APA did not do a thing to influence public law, or public policy. They only rode along and enjoyed the ride.

Not a legacy I'd want to be a part of.

 

[captain dad]

The card says you are interested in voting. It does not say you will vote for NJAASAP.

My card has been sent, but I still hold my vote.

Mooneymite is expressing concerns that many others have as well. Good for him. Shame on those that can't listen to another viewpoint. This thread has some good info in it, once I filter the BS from the rah-rah team.

How is this for Rah Rah...

If you don't fill out a card and send it in, your absence of a vote will equal a no vote to any union. Result equals our contract will be null and void.

More Rah Rah. You want to stay with the teamsters; that haven't lifted one finger to do anything for us and continue to take our money and use it to lobby for truck driver's? Go for it.

The main thing is that we vote in a union wether it is NJASAP or IBT with a 50% +1 margin. Without that we are flying without a contract.

Get your cards in. We need 100% involvement. You think it was bad prior to the 2005 contract? Try NO CONTRACT!!

Rah Rah? No, just the truth. Don't believe me? Call the union stewards.

 

[Guitar Guy]

If we're not, why do they insist on dressing us like one?:uzi:

Hey, I took the job, in part, because we DON'T have to wear those silly airline-style hats.

Guitar...my point was that I have heard from more than one ALPA rep that the ideal of bringing frac pilots into the ALPA fold has been loosely discussed. Probably bar talk but still scary. I do not want ALPA on property...EVER!

Let's hope it never gets past the "bar talk" stage. From the guys I've talked with, whether or not they come from an airline background like you and I, no one wants to have ALPA on property here. Their reputation precedes them.

 

[Mooneymite]

ALPA knows nothing of unity. ZERO! Their battle cry is unity but when the larger part of the membership speaks, they turn a deaf ear. And to say that other pilot unions have ridden on the coat tails of ALPA ignores the hard work of those members who enjoy their own union.

I presume you are speaking of ALPA present, not the ALPA of some years ago.

As I stated before, I am not a big fan of the ALPA. ALPA went down the "elitist" road early on and today is reaping the fruits of that bad decision. Probably then, like today, pilots didn't like the idea of being lumped with (disgusting!) labor. These airline pilots developed and clung to a model that burned more bridges than it built.

All that being said, ALPA is well established and still has friends in high places. Just like the IBT.

Our 1108 leadership obviously thinks it is best to go independent rather than build upon the well established base paid for by millions of workers before us. I respect their right to make that decision, but I question its wisdom for the long term.

If SWAPA or other independent unions have made any impact as great as the ALPA's on public policy, I am not aware of it. Educate me.

 

[IDEtoNJA]

How is this for Rah Rah...

If you don't file out a card and send it in, your absence of a vote will equal a no vote to any union. Result equals our contract will be null and void.

More Rah Rah. You want to stay with the teamsters; that haven't lifted one finger to do anything for us and continue to take our money and use it to lobby for truck driver's? Go for it.

The main thing is that we vote in a union wether it is NJASAP or IBT with a 50% +1 margin. Without that we are flying without a contract.

Get your cards in. We need 100% involvement. You think it was bad prior to the 2005 contract? Try NO CONTRACT!!

Rah Rah? No, just the truth. Don't believe me? Call the union stewards.

Captain Dad,

Please do not give out wrong information!

The current authorization card drive will not change the representation status of the NetJets pilots! The current drive is meant to indicate to the NMB that the NetJets pilots want a representation vote!

Once the NMB certifies that 50% + 1 pilot have sent in a card, it will call for a new representation polling. During this polling the NetJets pilots will have the opportunity to vote for their choice of representation. This polling is the one that MUST have at least 50% + 1 vote participation for representation by either IBT, NJASAP, or any other body to ensure representation after the conclusion of the polling!

Is a high participation in the card drive important? I believe it is! However, we do not risk loss of representation with a low card drive turnout!

IDEtoNJA

 

[pilot772]

If SWAPA or other independent unions have made any impact as great as the ALPA's on public policy, I am not aware of it. Educate me.

SWAPA in fact was the hardest charger in changing the age 60 rule many years ago. Only after the winds had changed and changing the rule to 65 appeared a matter of time rather than a possibility did ALPA jump on board. In fact I remember getting a fast read from ALPA national a few years ago that ALPA was looking at changing its view. They stated that the appearance of the the law being changed was evident and they needed to get on board to help guide the legislation.

 

[Mooneymite]

SWAPA in fact was the hardest charger in changing the age 60 rule many years ago. Only after the winds had changed and changing the rule to 65 appeared a matter of time rather than a possibility did ALPA jump on board. In fact I remember getting a fast read from ALPA national a few years ago that ALPA was looking at changing its view. They stated that the appearance of the the law being changed was evident and they needed to get on board to help guide the legislation.

I think the age 60 ruling was a perfect example of why independents are NOT potent in the area of public policy/law. As I watched the age 60 rule unfold, SWAPA was totally powerless until ALPA got involved.

Funny how two people can see the same event and come away with such different views!

I guess that's what keeps Flightinfo.com a lively place.