Look before you leap, NJASAP!

[B19 Flyer]

Secondly, your definition is incorrect. The USA is not a democracy, it is a republic. Educate yourself on the difference. PM with questions.

Explain that to Daniel Webster, for it was his dictionary that was quoted stating the United States was a democracy.

Webster has been known to be a credible source of information.

I don't need to be educated by a union supporter, I'll go with the FAA industry standard dictionary thank you very much.

 

[FL450]

As interesting as this debate has become, the key issue remains for NJA pilots to decide. Stay IBT or become NJASAP. The facts tell the tale. 25% of total dues to the IBT for 01% RON. A nifty monthly magazine. In fact, money actually spent against the Fractional industry. The remaining 75% of dues spent protecting, expanding, negotiating and developing historic QOL and financial security for NJA pilots. Pretty simple. So much more to be accomplished with the missing 25%.

The foundation and principles of ASAP have created what NJA enjoys today. The next generation for NJA pilots is simply NJASAP minus the IBT affiliation. Reality is we've actually been without the IBT support all along, except for the 25% franchise fee.

Facts are facts, but feel free to dispute them.

Welcome NJASAP.

 

[fischman]

B19,

I will send a message to Websters informing them of their error. Thanks for letting me know about it.

Since you are going to close you eyes, I will inform you of the difference.

In a Democracy, the people have a vote in every single issue. This is highly inefficient because it would require the people to be educated on every single vote. This is unrealistic, and quite frankly dangerous. The closest thing EVER to a true Democracy only occurs in small groups of people. Usually 100 or less. An example is a Pirate Ship, or if you are a reality TV fan, Survivor on CBS.

In a Republic, the people vote for representative to speak for them. This is what you see in most unions and in the largest Union of all, The United States of America. You do get to vote, but not on the issues, but the people representing you.

You are welcome for the free Civics lesson. I was hoping someone of you education would have known this basic difference, but I guess not all can be as well informed as myself.

 

[Helmsalee]

The founding fathers did not want a democracy. They chose a republic instead to prevent the abuse of a minority by a majority.

 

[gunfyter]

I guess 19 doesn't know the words to the Pledge of Allegiance...

"...and to the Republic, for which it stands..."

Add that to the list of things 19 does not know.

Well you can't blame him for that. The ACLU probably sued the school district to take the Pledge out of the Schools where he lived.

 

[netjetwife]

....the key issue remains for NJA pilots to decide. Stay IBT or become NJASAP. Since the official launch of the independence movement less than 2 weeks ago, half (or more by now) of the pilotgroup turned in cards calling for a vote. The facts tell the tale. .... The IBT offers nothing the NJ pilots can't do for themselves. When it comes to the frac industry the NJ pilots have way more expertise and motivation. So much more to be accomplished with the missing 25%. Exactly! For their own pilotgroup and for the good of the industry.

The foundation and principles of ASAP have created what NJA enjoys today. So true. The Teamsters have been copying the NJA models for Steward training and the grievance process--not the other way around. The next generation for NJA pilots is simply NJASAP minus the IBT affiliation. Agreed. I've been calling it the next logical step toward self-determination. Reality is we've actually been without the IBT support all along, except for the 25% franchise fee. In 2005 the IBT wanted the NJ pilots to settle for the POSTA that was overwhelmingly rejected. In 2007 they didn't even know the pilots were involved in IBB, much less had a new contract with significant improvements-- 3 years early. .... Welcome NJASAP.

Thanks for publicly supporting a cause that's important to your fellow pilots and the frac industry, as a whole. When the NJA pilots go above and beyond with support and donations to the causes near and dear to them they make a huge statement about their camaraderie. At times like this everyone can see firsthand a union at its most basic meaning --and its finest. :beer:

 

[B19 Flyer]

Thanks for publicly supporting a cause that's important to your fellow pilots and the frac industry, as a whole. When the NJA pilots go above and beyond with support and donations to the causes near and dear to them they make a huge statement about their camaraderie. At times like this everyone can see firsthand a union at its most basic meaning --and its finest. :beer:

This is one cause that I wholeheartedly support.

After all, what could be more fun than watching a union create turmoil and whine about money like the NJASAP is doing? :crying:

 

[fischman]

This is one cause that I wholeheartedly support.

After all, what could be more fun than watching a union create turmoil and whine about money like the NJASAP is doing? :crying:

I thought you hated the turmoil unions create. They "made" your friend kill himself. They "made" you lose 2 jobs. (You don't think that maybe it is because you suck at your job?):erm:

 

[B19 Flyer]

I thought you hated the turmoil unions create. They "made" your friend kill himself. They "made" you lose 2 jobs. (You don't think that maybe it is because you suck at your job?):erm:

I hate the turmoil unions create when it messes up innocent bystanders like non-pilot employees and owners.

I LOVE watching turmoil between unions, it proves my point every day, that union members are never happy.

And I'm actually quite good at my job. Next time you fly, thank me for the improvements I've helped you with on the many working committees I've had input in.

Just because I dislike unions, doesn't mean that I don't support pilots. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[imacdog]

And I'm actually quite good at my job.

You expect us to think you are good at union busting?

 

[B19 Flyer]

You expect us to think you are good at union busting?

I'm not a union buster, nor am I a manager anymore. But any of us that have touched a hot stove and have gotten burned, tend to not want to touch that hot stove ever again.

I think that it's great FLOPS has voted in a union. All the rest of the fracs can sit back and let the union mongers there touch the hot stove and see how difficult unions make life.

They will see how much turmoil is created by unions, the disruptions and how miserable life can be if the airline doesn't have as deep of a pocket as NJ, (not that the deep pockets will help if the ecomomy continues to soften.) 1108 isn't getting it done, and now the NJ guys are going to battle with IBT which will make it worse.:crying:

Rock and roll! Let the hot stove touching begin.

This is where I enjoy the rhetoric. :laugh:

 

[netjetwife]

You expect us to think you are good at union busting?

In his dreams, Imac... Unity and camaraderie are alive and well in 1108. Both groups are on track to accomplish their goals. The only turmoil at FltOps is management induced, but what can you expect when they have a proven liar for a CEO? As for NJ, the relationship between the pilots and the rest of the company has never been better. Leaving the IBT isn't turmoil; it's simply the next logical step for a talented group of professionals focused on superior representation and self-determination.

Let the facts speak for themselves and give reality-warpers the boot.

 

[CA1900]

I'm not a union buster, nor am I a manager anymore. But any of us that have touched a hot stove and have gotten burned, tend to not want to touch that hot stove ever again.

The rest of us actually like hot food, so we'll learn from our mistakes and move on with our lives.

But hey, if you want the career equivalent of playing it overly safe and eating cold cereal for the rest of your life because something didn't work out for you, have at it.

 

[netjetwife]

CA1900, well said! Those who throw in the towel after one try lack guts--and credibility. Luckily, most of the frac pilots aren't quitters.

ANYTHING WORTH HAVING IS WORTH WORKING FOR. GIVE QUITTERS THE BLACK BOOT.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

I'm not a union buster, nor am I a manager anymore. But any of us that have touched a hot stove and have gotten burned, tend to not want to touch that hot stove ever again.

I think that it's great FLOPS has voted in a union. All the rest of the fracs can sit back and let the union mongers there touch the hot stove and see how difficult unions make life.

They will see how much turmoil is created by unions, the disruptions and how miserable life can be if the airline doesn't have as deep of a pocket as NJ, (not that the deep pockets will help if the ecomomy continues to soften.) 1108 isn't getting it done, and now the NJ guys are going to battle with IBT which will make it worse.:crying:

Rock and roll! Let the hot stove touching begin.

This is where I enjoy the rhetoric. :laugh:

Once again proving your point you have absolutely no frickin' idea how things run at 1108, nor the labor management relation on the NJ side, nor the real reasons why NJASAP will replace the teamsters at NetJets. Get your ducks in a row and educate yourself before opening your trap, this is not your pappa's union, Mister. Welcome to the next generation.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Once again proving your point you have absolutely no frickin' idea how things run at 1108, nor the labor management relation on the NJ side, nor the real reasons why NJASAP will replace the teamsters at NetJets. Get your ducks in a row and educate yourself before opening your trap, this is not your pappa's union, Mister. Welcome to the next generation.

Oh, I see how 1108 is doing business.

They piggybacked off the teamsters till they got the CBA they wanted, then decided to keep the money in house and are going to attempt to screw the teamsters.

A union is a union and there is no hiding from that.

I pity the poor pilots that voted 1108 on at FLOPS.

 

[fischman]

Oh, I see how 1108 is doing business.

.

I'm curious how you can see how 1108 is doing business from the desk of a non-union airline?

You are full of it sir.

 

[netjetwife]

My fischy friend you need to trade your avatar golf clubs in for umbrellas. The FUD is falling thick and fast. Those who are interested can read the true facts of how and why the NJ pilots have come to this point in their union history on http://njasap.com If you have any questions feel free to contact one of the NJASAP leaders.

HSF is absolutely right! The same NJ pilots that introduced the frac industry to a new way of doing business -- IBB success--are breaking new ground again. Those who have followed industry events aren't surprised at the latest development. The NJ pilots gave the Teamsters a chance when they established their own Local and pursued superior representation. To put it plainly, the IBT didn't keep up. Evolution and progress: lead, follow, or get out of the way.

THOSE STANDING IN THE WAY OF PROGRESS NEED TO GET THE BOOT.

 

[Fozzy]

To put it plainly, the IBT didn't keep up. Evolution and progress: lead, follow, or get out of the way.

THOSE STANDING IN THE WAY OF PROGRESS NEED TO GET THE BOOT.

Needs to be repeated! This sums it all up folks!

B19 a cheerleader for IBT!!?!! Wow some warning bells are going off now!
Such a tool.

 

[FLYLOW22]

B19 spins anything towards a Anti-Union agenda.

Too bad for him that most of us don't care much for circumstance, inuendo and make believe.

The simple truth is that $90,000 per month in dues money from 1108 is going to the IBT. Many of us don't feel that we are getting $90,0000 of representation per month in exchange.

Think of it as a search for a new vendor. It's business and IBT is bad business in terms of ROI for our dues money spent.

Nothing more, nothing less.

IBT had it's chance for the NJA pilots. FLOPS pilots are in control of their own destiny... they can act accordingly if desired. They might be better served by the IBT, it's their call.

SI-OH-NARA Hoffa.

We'll take it from here.

 

[Fozzy]

It's business and IBT is bad business

And here folks is the quote of the year. In the end, it is all business, not personal. I was told this years ago when I was just cutting my teeth with NJA(Thank you Jim H.!). Took some time before I really understood. FUD and Harassment (B-19) is playing stupid, but they get it also. They just want to keep the act up. They know it is business. But personal is so much more emotional.

 

[netjetwife]

Nice to see you posting, FlyLow. I see you haven't lost your touch for laying out the facts... I do hope you brought sturdy footwear, though. There are some slimy fud puddles on the board ... Dodge those and you'll do fine talking to those of us who live in the real world. NJW

 

[sgmick]

Card was sent the day I received it, along with a $100 donation of the money that 1108 (local) put in my pocket. I would follow Mr. Olsen (and crew) through the gates of hell.

More is on the way if they need it. More will come after that if needed, and so on, and so on, and so on, until NJASAP is my representative. Surely you get the picture.

No more needs to be said. The decision has been made. Time just needs to pass until it is a reality.

Hoffa..... Get over it. You lost us.

 

[netjetwife]

.... The decision has been made. Time just needs to pass until it is a reality. I dare say that day can't come soon enough for our office staff that was subjected to stereotypical Teamster's strong arm tactics...

Hoffa..... Get over it. You lost us.

True and funny, Sgmick. I can see it now. The fully loaded NJASAP train bound for the twin cities of Superior Representation and Self-Determination pulls out of the Too Little, Too Late station with Moore shaking his fist and screaming profanity as the high tech train rapidly disappears. Hoffa is all but begging on his knees...please stay with me...as he watches his gravy train shrink until there's nothing left but a familiar echo...SI-OH-NARA Hoooofffffaaaa.

 

[Majik]

The other day I was talking to B19. Told him I was selling my old Pinto and was cancelling the insurance on it.
He said, "What? You're gonna screw the insurance company by cancelling a policy on a car you no longer own?"
I just shook my head and walked away...

 

[gunfyter]

thats funny.

He told me drivers without insurance are better safer drivers. They are not distracted by having insurance so drive more safely.

He supports the non-insured drivers who are more dedicated to driving.

People who are insured are greedy and just care about protecting their money. They don't care about driving

 

[stingray]

I sent a fax copy of the card to vote to decertify, the very morning that it was sent out to us all, mailed shortly after that. It is such an obvious thing, we all knew this was coming. They where giving many chances to do what is right for us, and they chose not to.
They acted like what the teamsters of the old are known for. Take the money, and spend as little as possible, and do as little as possible, and ignore the membership they will do what National says.
They sent one of thier cronies and gives our local crap personaly and gets in our General Counsel's face and gives her a rash of sh*t to where she feels threatened. My next time in Columbus I owe her dinner.
This pilot group will not lay down and take this cr*p any more. We have very talented group within our pilots and with those working at local 1108, more then the Teamsters national realize. The group working for us can see the BS and know how to deal with it.
This is a good move, it will happen, goodbuy teamsters

 

[fischman]

Stingray,

A faxed copy will not do. You need to send in the original.

 

[netjetwife]

Stingray, that's a good recap. The cards are showing up at a steady rate which leaves no doubt about the pilots' thoughts in this matter. They (and their spouses) are, indeed, speaking with one voice...we're outa here! The vote will just make it official; in actuality, the Teamsters lost the NJ pilots in spirit long ago. No one is impressed or intimidated that they've shown up now throwing their weight around and claiming credit for the accomplishments that belong solely to the NJA pilotgroup. Give 'em the boot gentlemen and move on!

Majik and Gunfyter, what did you expect from the village idiot? A relevant conversation? ... I started ignoring him long ago. All he does is mutter asinine things about my boots while giving everyone a headache with that monotonous drum beat over and over, same thing all day.... Some in the community have asked the Sheriff to drag him away because he's spreading his stinking, slimy fud all over the square, but it seems we're stuck with him because he hasn't broken any laws -- even if he is out of touch with reality. Oh well, I guess every village has one.

You know some guys are convinced the VI is from the Options area, but others of us remember that he was pestering the Avantair folks when they talked about getting their group organized. So I guess he's just a weird drifter dragging his stinking fud from post to post. He's definitely not from the frac community and apparently doesn't give a rat's @ss about any of the pilot's or their families. None of us have been influenced or fooled since he's shown up here flinging his fud around and claiming that the sky will fall if the FltOps pilots get a contract with professional wages and fair work rules. Give him the boot gentlemen and move on!

 

[B19 Flyer]

Stingray, that's a good recap. The cards are showing up at a steady rate which leaves no doubt about the pilots' thoughts in this matter. They (and their spouses) are, indeed, speaking with one voice...we're outa here! The vote will just make it official; in actuality, the Teamsters lost the NJ pilots in spirit long ago. No one is impressed or intimidated that they've shown up now throwing their weight around and claiming credit for the accomplishments that belong solely to the NJA pilotgroup. Give 'em the boot gentlemen and move on!

Majik and Gunfyter, what did you expect from the village idiot? A relevant conversation? ... I started ignoring him long ago. All he does is mutter asinine things about my boots while giving everyone a headache with that monotonous drum beat over and over, same thing all day.... Some in the community have asked the Sheriff to drag him away because he's spreading his stinking, slimy fud all over the square, but it seems we're stuck with him because he hasn't broken any laws -- even if he is out of touch with reality. Oh well, I guess every village has one.

You know some guys are convinced the VI is from the Options area, but others of us remember that he was pestering the Avantair folks when they talked about getting their group organized. So I guess he's just a weird drifter dragging his stinking fud from post to post. He's definitely not from the frac community and apparently doesn't give a rat's @ss about any of the pilot's or their families. None of us have been influenced or fooled since he's shown up here flinging his fud around and claiming that the sky will fall if the FltOps pilots get a contract with professional wages and fair work rules. Give him the boot gentlemen and move on!

You only a pilot's wife whining away again. :crying: