Look before you leap, NJASAP!

[B19 Flyer]

Secondly, your definition is incorrect. The USA is not a democracy, it is a republic. Educate yourself on the difference. PM with questions.

Explain that to Daniel Webster, for it was his dictionary that was quoted stating the United States was a democracy.

Webster has been known to be a credible source of information.

I don't need to be educated by a union supporter, I'll go with the FAA industry standard dictionary thank you very much.

 

[FL450]

As interesting as this debate has become, the key issue remains for NJA pilots to decide. Stay IBT or become NJASAP. The facts tell the tale. 25% of total dues to the IBT for 01% RON. A nifty monthly magazine. In fact, money actually spent against the Fractional industry. The remaining 75% of dues spent protecting, expanding, negotiating and developing historic QOL and financial security for NJA pilots. Pretty simple. So much more to be accomplished with the missing 25%.

The foundation and principles of ASAP have created what NJA enjoys today. The next generation for NJA pilots is simply NJASAP minus the IBT affiliation. Reality is we've actually been without the IBT support all along, except for the 25% franchise fee.

Facts are facts, but feel free to dispute them.

Welcome NJASAP.

 

[fischman]

B19,

I will send a message to Websters informing them of their error. Thanks for letting me know about it.

Since you are going to close you eyes, I will inform you of the difference.

In a Democracy, the people have a vote in every single issue. This is highly inefficient because it would require the people to be educated on every single vote. This is unrealistic, and quite frankly dangerous. The closest thing EVER to a true Democracy only occurs in small groups of people. Usually 100 or less. An example is a Pirate Ship, or if you are a reality TV fan, Survivor on CBS.

In a Republic, the people vote for representative to speak for them. This is what you see in most unions and in the largest Union of all, The United States of America. You do get to vote, but not on the issues, but the people representing you.

You are welcome for the free Civics lesson. I was hoping someone of you education would have known this basic difference, but I guess not all can be as well informed as myself.

 

[Helmsalee]

The founding fathers did not want a democracy. They chose a republic instead to prevent the abuse of a minority by a majority.

 

[gunfyter]

I guess 19 doesn't know the words to the Pledge of Allegiance...

"...and to the Republic, for which it stands..."

Add that to the list of things 19 does not know.

Well you can't blame him for that. The ACLU probably sued the school district to take the Pledge out of the Schools where he lived.

 

[netjetwife]

....the key issue remains for NJA pilots to decide. Stay IBT or become NJASAP. Since the official launch of the independence movement less than 2 weeks ago, half (or more by now) of the pilotgroup turned in cards calling for a vote. The facts tell the tale. .... The IBT offers nothing the NJ pilots can't do for themselves. When it comes to the frac industry the NJ pilots have way more expertise and motivation. So much more to be accomplished with the missing 25%. Exactly! For their own pilotgroup and for the good of the industry.

The foundation and principles of ASAP have created what NJA enjoys today. So true. The Teamsters have been copying the NJA models for Steward training and the grievance process--not the other way around. The next generation for NJA pilots is simply NJASAP minus the IBT affiliation. Agreed. I've been calling it the next logical step toward self-determination. Reality is we've actually been without the IBT support all along, except for the 25% franchise fee. In 2005 the IBT wanted the NJ pilots to settle for the POSTA that was overwhelmingly rejected. In 2007 they didn't even know the pilots were involved in IBB, much less had a new contract with significant improvements-- 3 years early. .... Welcome NJASAP.

Thanks for publicly supporting a cause that's important to your fellow pilots and the frac industry, as a whole. When the NJA pilots go above and beyond with support and donations to the causes near and dear to them they make a huge statement about their camaraderie. At times like this everyone can see firsthand a union at its most basic meaning --and its finest. :beer:

 

[B19 Flyer]

Thanks for publicly supporting a cause that's important to your fellow pilots and the frac industry, as a whole. When the NJA pilots go above and beyond with support and donations to the causes near and dear to them they make a huge statement about their camaraderie. At times like this everyone can see firsthand a union at its most basic meaning --and its finest. :beer:

This is one cause that I wholeheartedly support.

After all, what could be more fun than watching a union create turmoil and whine about money like the NJASAP is doing? :crying:

 

[fischman]

This is one cause that I wholeheartedly support.

After all, what could be more fun than watching a union create turmoil and whine about money like the NJASAP is doing? :crying:

I thought you hated the turmoil unions create. They "made" your friend kill himself. They "made" you lose 2 jobs. (You don't think that maybe it is because you suck at your job?):erm:

 

[B19 Flyer]

I thought you hated the turmoil unions create. They "made" your friend kill himself. They "made" you lose 2 jobs. (You don't think that maybe it is because you suck at your job?):erm:

I hate the turmoil unions create when it messes up innocent bystanders like non-pilot employees and owners.

I LOVE watching turmoil between unions, it proves my point every day, that union members are never happy.

And I'm actually quite good at my job. Next time you fly, thank me for the improvements I've helped you with on the many working committees I've had input in.

Just because I dislike unions, doesn't mean that I don't support pilots. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[imacdog]

And I'm actually quite good at my job.

You expect us to think you are good at union busting?

 

[B19 Flyer]

You expect us to think you are good at union busting?

I'm not a union buster, nor am I a manager anymore. But any of us that have touched a hot stove and have gotten burned, tend to not want to touch that hot stove ever again.

I think that it's great FLOPS has voted in a union. All the rest of the fracs can sit back and let the union mongers there touch the hot stove and see how difficult unions make life.

They will see how much turmoil is created by unions, the disruptions and how miserable life can be if the airline doesn't have as deep of a pocket as NJ, (not that the deep pockets will help if the ecomomy continues to soften.) 1108 isn't getting it done, and now the NJ guys are going to battle with IBT which will make it worse.:crying:

Rock and roll! Let the hot stove touching begin.

This is where I enjoy the rhetoric. :laugh:

 

[netjetwife]

You expect us to think you are good at union busting?

In his dreams, Imac... Unity and camaraderie are alive and well in 1108. Both groups are on track to accomplish their goals. The only turmoil at FltOps is management induced, but what can you expect when they have a proven liar for a CEO? As for NJ, the relationship between the pilots and the rest of the company has never been better. Leaving the IBT isn't turmoil; it's simply the next logical step for a talented group of professionals focused on superior representation and self-determination.

Let the facts speak for themselves and give reality-warpers the boot.

 

[CA1900]

I'm not a union buster, nor am I a manager anymore. But any of us that have touched a hot stove and have gotten burned, tend to not want to touch that hot stove ever again.

The rest of us actually like hot food, so we'll learn from our mistakes and move on with our lives.

But hey, if you want the career equivalent of playing it overly safe and eating cold cereal for the rest of your life because something didn't work out for you, have at it.

 

[netjetwife]

CA1900, well said! Those who throw in the towel after one try lack guts--and credibility. Luckily, most of the frac pilots aren't quitters.

ANYTHING WORTH HAVING IS WORTH WORKING FOR. GIVE QUITTERS THE BLACK BOOT.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

I'm not a union buster, nor am I a manager anymore. But any of us that have touched a hot stove and have gotten burned, tend to not want to touch that hot stove ever again.

I think that it's great FLOPS has voted in a union. All the rest of the fracs can sit back and let the union mongers there touch the hot stove and see how difficult unions make life.

They will see how much turmoil is created by unions, the disruptions and how miserable life can be if the airline doesn't have as deep of a pocket as NJ, (not that the deep pockets will help if the ecomomy continues to soften.) 1108 isn't getting it done, and now the NJ guys are going to battle with IBT which will make it worse.:crying:

Rock and roll! Let the hot stove touching begin.

This is where I enjoy the rhetoric. :laugh:

Once again proving your point you have absolutely no frickin' idea how things run at 1108, nor the labor management relation on the NJ side, nor the real reasons why NJASAP will replace the teamsters at NetJets. Get your ducks in a row and educate yourself before opening your trap, this is not your pappa's union, Mister. Welcome to the next generation.