Latest DAL/NWA arbitration debates

[PuffDriver]

First off, it is your tone. You come across as having an attitude that the NWA pilots should be so thankful that we are now DAL. I think it is great, but that does not mean my seniority is for sale. You say we got a raise, didn't loa 19 give you a raise also? Anyway, how can you call it a raise when, in actuality, we are getting back some of what our pay used to be. We're still not back to what we lost.

You seem to diminish(with enjoyment) what NWA brings to the merger. I don't think you realize what we bring. I also don't think you realize what we lost under the new PWA, although, there we also gains.

What makes you so sure I'd make more money now? I think I would have upgraded quicker and been a Capt longer without the merger. Pay rates are very vulnerable. Seniority is more important to me than pay.

I read the transcripts, but, it seems you want to dig in and come up with an interpreted meaning as to how this will turn out. I want to feel like we ALL win, whereas you'd rather see us(NWA) lose. I choose to be happy with whatever happens with the SLI. But to constantly put down NWA and our pilots, like you do, is an easy way to cause animosity.

I shouldn't even started with my original post. I apologize if you were offended, but you deserved it. It was a spur of the moment jab that snowballed into more infighting.

I am not sure how you read a "tone" within the scope of a 2-D computer screen. I can tell you that there isn't one. I might add that a bit of introspection might reveal a bit of defensiveness? The Delta MEC from day 1 has considered it a merger of equals, as have I. To the contrary, it is the NWA MEC who from day 1 has been preaching "super-premium widebody flying" and the NRT hub. Very little has been mentioned of the "super profitable" Africa operation, or the very profitable latin and South America operation. No mention of the money losing NWA cargo operation either. For the record, it is a merger of equals. Nobody is better or worse, as I have mentioned before and apparently was looked over. The amount of jobs, and their value, that are brought to the merger is the determining value.

Let's start with:

I think it is great, but that does not mean my seniority is for sale. You say we got a raise, didn't loa 19 give you a raise also? Anyway, how can you call it a raise when, in actuality, we are getting back some of what our pay used to be. We're still not back to what we lost.

This is part of my issue with the NW line of thinking is these buzz phrases. Nobody is saying that seniority is for sale. Seniority is an equity brought to the merger. Again, seniority arbitration is about jobs AND their value. NWA brought not only less jobs in number, but less value with those less jobs. Somehow, the value of a career has to be measured. That is done via pay rates existing over a career including planned raises. We did our merger a little different in that NWA pilots were brought up to parity with Delta pilots on DCC. BTW I call it a pay raise to prevent having to type "increase over prior compensation every time". It is indeed more money in your pocket than you had coming in the day before. Not just a pay raise, but increased staffing levels, 2 captain/2 f/o vs 1 captain 3 f/o, etc. Your team has run numerous scenarios using your old seniority list with the new pay rates which is mixing apples and oranges. You didn't get the rates without the DCC. We were getting the rates without the DCC. Big difference. Additionally our 8 737-700s were brought up to parity with the -800s on hourly rate. That's it for us until jan1, when we get our raise, which you also get BTW. That is increased value to your career brought on by the merger which we did not get. That HAS to be accounted for in the seniority list amongst a merger of equals.

LOA 19 gave us no raise on DCC. It DID give you one. Quibbling over nomenclature is what I would consider non-relevant. You got MORE compensation increase in the merger than I did. That has to be equalized somehow.


Moving on:

What makes you so sure I'd make more money now? I think I would have upgraded quicker and been a Capt longer without the merger. Pay rates are very vulnerable. Seniority is more important to me than pay.

The numbers have been run. I have seen them. The career compensation of a NWA pilot, without exception is higher with the increased pay rates, under the Delta list, without exception, than NWA old rates with your attrition under your old rules and rates. To attempt to predict the future with pay rate vulnerability is futile, IMO and detracts from the issue at hand. Seniority is actually an abstract concept, and is just as vulnerable--as we have seen at USAir with 18 year furloughees. There has to me a concrete measure of value and number of jobs to integrate seniority lists fairly. The "joy" I take is a figment of your imagination I can assure you. The numbers have also been run, and Delta pilots need to have the list they proposed in order to keep our career compensation equal to pre-merger compensation. That's why there is so little wiggle room. This is not a negotiation to us, it IS the fair final solution, we believe. we are not playing the traditional game of starting on opposite ends and meeting in the middle. We have played it straight up from day 1, despite all of the accusations which have been proven wrong with the element of time.

Moving along:

I read the transcripts, but, it seems you want to dig in and come up with an interpreted meaning as to how this will turn out. I want to feel like we ALL win, whereas you'd rather see us(NWA) lose. I choose to be happy with whatever happens with the SLI. But to constantly put down NWA and our pilots, like you do, is an easy way to cause animosity.

I never made any other claim that it was anything BUT my interpretation, although I firmly believe that my line of thinking is both more fair and rational than the catch phrases "seniority is not for sale", "double breasted sky gods", and "arrogant Delta pilots". We have run the numbers, and they are cold, hard, and fair. Anything less is a gain by you at a loss to us--which is prohibited by ALPA merger policy. Your pilots DTW, red tail, Super get exactly what they give. The impression out there seems to be that Delta pilots are pushovers. We aren't. We speak softly, and carry the stick to use if necessary. The majority, as supported by voting record, don't run around shooting off flares just because they look pretty. As a group, we vote with our head, and go with the numbers rather than get wrapped up in rhetoric. We stand by, however, to pull the trigger when necessary.

To make a short story long , you will not find a slam by me until somebody else has done so first. My initial post in this thread had been my first in awhile, and was made in response to one of my own with my impression of how it was all going down. I firmly believe that the evidence, as well as fairness, points firmly to the Delta proposal--perhaps modified slightly. I also stated why I thought that. Check the posts following it, including yours--no hard feelings BTW. A lot of rhetoric(number of pilots attending the hearings, arrogant Delta pilots, colors), and little rebuttal of the issues that actually count. I fully realize that you do not agree, and now I have addressed some of the reasons why you do not agree--I think.

The Delta guys want a fair list. Having a dynamic list for 10 years until all NWA retirements have peaked, and then having it static at Delta retirements are peaking is not good faith fairness, and leads to animosity, and is just as far away from fairness at DOH with 10 year fences, IMO. While I agree that it addresses your issues, I do not think that you are taking a hard look as to how it addresses Delta pilot issues. Not your job, nor your lawyers. I get that. Nor is it our job to address yours then, and I don't think that is quite being understood.

It is what it is, and probably human nature. Regardless, it is done. I will move on fair or unfair outcome--as I believe that we are in for some very hard times ahead.

 

[Superpilot92]

YGBSM..Good one. Keep them coming.

ok I gave you the benefit of the doubt and asked a serious question yet you can't even answer. You will now be blocked as you clearly contribute nothing but childish flames to every discussion.

Puffdriver=ignore list, he/she earned it.

 

[PuffDriver]

ok I gave you the benefit of the doubt and asked a serious question yet you can't even answer. You will now be blocked as you clearly contribute nothing but childish flames to every discussion.

Puffdriver=ignore list, he/she earned it.

Apparently into thin air:

Seriously, Flamebaiting continuously removes any credibility to your posts or opinions. Why come onto an aviation forum only to waste your time flamebaiting? Is there a point? Why not use this forum for it's real purpose? Try contributing to discussion for a change.

I might ask every question the same of you, hence my response. You have gotten what you have given. I have provided many opinions, and the basis for each. If you think that "for a change" would be contributing on my part, then you haven't been paying attention. I simply don't do it, except in direct response to flamebaiting. If I am truly on your ignore list, so be it. Imo, YOU'VE earned it. Try MJs approach sometime and you may get different response. If you think that by blocking me, that you are punishing me, you WAY overestimate your pull with me. Frankly, it will be more of a relief as it stands now.

 

[MJ42]

I am not sure how you read a "tone" within the scope of a 2-D computer screen. I can tell you that there isn't one. I might add that a bit of introspection might reveal a bit of defensiveness? The Delta MEC from day 1 has considered it a merger of equals, as have I. To the contrary, it is the NWA MEC who from day 1 has been preaching "super-premium widebody flying" and the NRT hub. Very little has been mentioned of the "super profitable" Africa operation, or the very profitable latin and South America operation. No mention of the money losing NWA cargo operation either. For the record, it is a merger of equals. Nobody is better or worse, as I have mentioned before and apparently was looked over. The amount of jobs, and their value, that are brought to the merger is the determining value.

Let's start with:



This is part of my issue with the NW line of thinking is these buzz phrases. Nobody is saying that seniority is for sale. Seniority is an equity brought to the merger. Again, seniority arbitration is about jobs AND their value. NWA brought not only less jobs in number, but less value with those less jobs. Somehow, the value of a career has to be measured. That is done via pay rates existing over a career including planned raises. We did our merger a little different in that NWA pilots were brought up to parity with Delta pilots on DCC. BTW I call it a pay raise to prevent having to type "increase over prior compensation every time". It is indeed more money in your pocket than you had coming in the day before. Not just a pay raise, but increased staffing levels, 2 captain/2 f/o vs 1 captain 3 f/o, etc. Your team has run numerous scenarios using your old seniority list with the new pay rates which is mixing apples and oranges. You didn't get the rates without the DCC. We were getting the rates without the DCC. Big difference. Additionally our 8 737-700s were brought up to parity with the -800s on hourly rate. That's it for us until jan1, when we get our raise, which you also get BTW. That is increased value to your career brought on by the merger which we did not get. That HAS to be accounted for in the seniority list amongst a merger of equals.

LOA 19 gave us no raise on DCC. It DID give you one. Quibbling over nomenclature is what I would consider non-relevant. You got MORE compensation increase in the merger than I did. That has to be equalized somehow.


Moving on:




The numbers have been run. I have seen them. The career compensation of a NWA pilot, without exception is higher with the increased pay rates, under the Delta list, without exception, than NWA old rates with your attrition under your old rules and rates. To attempt to predict the future with pay rate vulnerability is futile, IMO and detracts from the issue at hand. Seniority is actually an abstract concept, and is just as vulnerable--as we have seen at USAir with 18 year furloughees. There has to me a concrete measure of value and number of jobs to integrate seniority lists fairly. The "joy" I take is a figment of your imagination I can assure you. The numbers have also been run, and Delta pilots need to have the list they proposed in order to keep our career compensation equal to pre-merger compensation. That's why there is so little wiggle room. This is not a negotiation to us, it IS the fair final solution, we believe. we are not playing the traditional game of starting on opposite ends and meeting in the middle. We have played it straight up from day 1, despite all of the accusations which have been proven wrong with the element of time.

Moving along:



I never made any other claim that it was anything BUT my interpretation, although I firmly believe that my line of thinking is both more fair and rational than the catch phrases "seniority is not for sale", "double breasted sky gods", and "arrogant Delta pilots". We have run the numbers, and they are cold, hard, and fair. Anything less is a gain by you at a loss to us--which is prohibited by ALPA merger policy. Your pilots DTW, red tail, Super get exactly what they give. The impression out there seems to be that Delta pilots are pushovers. We aren't. We speak softly, and carry the stick to use if necessary. The majority, as supported by voting record, don't run around shooting off flares just because they look pretty. As a group, we vote with our head, and go with the numbers rather than get wrapped up in rhetoric. We stand by, however, to pull the trigger when necessary.

To make a short story long , you will not find a slam by me until somebody else has done so first. My initial post in this thread had been my first in awhile, and was made in response to one of my own with my impression of how it was all going down. I firmly believe that the evidence, as well as fairness, points firmly to the Delta proposal--perhaps modified slightly. I also stated why I thought that. Check the posts following it, including yours--no hard feelings BTW. A lot of rhetoric(number of pilots attending the hearings, arrogant Delta pilots, colors), and little rebuttal of the issues that actually count. I fully realize that you do not agree, and now I have addressed some of the reasons why you do not agree--I think.

The Delta guys want a fair list. Having a dynamic list for 10 years until all NWA retirements have peaked, and then having it static at Delta retirements are peaking is not good faith fairness, and leads to animosity, and is just as far away from fairness at DOH with 10 year fences, IMO. While I agree that it addresses your issues, I do not think that you are taking a hard look as to how it addresses Delta pilot issues. Not your job, nor your lawyers. I get that. Nor is it our job to address yours then, and I don't think that is quite being understood.

It is what it is, and probably human nature. Regardless, it is done. I will move on fair or unfair outcome--as I believe that we are in for some very hard times ahead.

You make some valid points from a "RD" pilot's point of view. Being former NWA I see it differently. You obviously put a lot of time and research(and sarcasm ) into your posts. I read the transcripts but probably don't have the extent of knowledge, as you do, to fully understand what is meant.

What I do understand, IMO, is that DAL's proposal doesn't seem fair to me(and for that matter any NWA pilot). I don't want a list that will cause problems for years to come. However, it does bother me when posters(DAL and NWA) spin the arbitrators comments to support their SLI proposal. If pilots try to interpret the arbitrators thinking, they may just be setting themselves up for a major disappointment.

My own personal opinion is that all pilots hired after the last furlough(on both sides) should be DOH. Especially those DAL pilots hired AFTER the merger was announced. They can keep their 767er, I'll take the seniority.

I hope both sides will accept the SLI decision no matter what the outcome.

Maybe I read too much into your posts and misinterpret your tone, I guess it's because I disagree with your assessment.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Funny thing is that there may be some legal ramifications to doing that to the bottom of the list.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

....My own personal opinion is that all pilots hired after the last furlough(on both sides) should be DOH. Especially those DAL pilots hired AFTER the merger was announced. They can keep their 767er, I'll take the seniority.

I hope both sides will accept the SLI decision no matter what the outcome.

I know you'd love the seniority... remember NWA hired under 5% of their current list this cycle. DAL hired 10% of their current list. That is a big difference. DOH on the bottom end would be a windfall and damage the furlough buffer for DAL guys.

So, I'll take the seniority.


I agree with you on the bottom line though... whatever comes down at the end ruling or agreement is what we've gotta live with. I'm not going to be b!tching about it for the next 38 years.

 

[Speedbird34]

I know you'd love the seniority... remember NWA hired under 5% of their current list this cycle. DAL hired 10% of their current list. That is a big difference. DOH on the bottom end would be a windfall and damage the furlough buffer for DAL guys.

So, I'll take the seniority.


I agree with you on the bottom line though... whatever comes down at the end ruling or agreement is what we've gotta live with. I'm not going to be b!tching about it for the next 38 years.

I agree 100% Thank God we do not have the mentality of throwing our junior guys under the bus. This merger is already damaging enough on our career expectations and quality of life.

 

[~~~^~~~]

That's kind of what concerns me with Bloch's introduction of "pull out-put in." That protects the NWA pilots' attrition without re-compensating for the Delta pilots' equipment and QOL. It is too blunt an axe IMHO. These slices need to be made with micrometers and lasers.

If Bloch used a variable that gave him even 100 pilots it would completely nullify any ratio that stacked the 88 above a DC9 in any sort of ratio. It would be worse than DOH for DAL at the bottom. Bloch would probably feel that a fence balances it out.

Certainly the closing makes it a cliffhanger.

 

[PuffDriver]

You make some valid points from a "RD" pilot's point of view. Being former NWA I see it differently. You obviously put a lot of time and research(and sarcasm ) into your posts. I read the transcripts but probably don't have the extent of knowledge, as you do, to fully understand what is meant.

What I do understand, IMO, is that DAL's proposal doesn't seem fair to me(and for that matter any NWA pilot). I don't want a list that will cause problems for years to come. However, it does bother me when posters(DAL and NWA) spin the arbitrators comments to support their SLI proposal. If pilots try to interpret the arbitrators thinking, they may just be setting themselves up for a major disappointment.

My own personal opinion is that all pilots hired after the last furlough(on both sides) should be DOH. Especially those DAL pilots hired AFTER the merger was announced. They can keep their 767er, I'll take the seniority.

I hope both sides will accept the SLI decision no matter what the outcome.

Maybe I read too much into your posts and misinterpret your tone, I guess it's because I disagree with your assessment.

I understand that you feel the DAL proposal is not fair. What I urge, is that you explore why it feels unfair as to why indeed it IS unfair--if at all.

To diverge, as an example, we went through two different pay cuts at Delta in the recent past. The first was outside of BK, the second of course was the final product out of BK. many of us felt both times that both agreements were unfair. Be that as it may, I went with my feelings on the first vote, and voted no. Of course, I was even more pi$$ed when the second bite of the apple came, but after looking at the whole package, and seeing what the alternative was, I begrudgingly voted yes although it would have felt better to vote no.

I see that you feel our proposal is unfair, and I get it. I have attempted to explain the fairness behind it, apparently without success. I understand that NWA was counting on these retirements to promote. That changed with the merger IMO. notice that when NWA guys talk about time frames, they tend to talk in a 10 year frame--when their retirements happen. The period immediately after, when Delta retirements kick into high gear, seem to get neglected.

Anyway, good exchange, and I too hope that we can all move on. I am not optimistic, however, given the history of bad blood between your more senior folk. Delta pilots ted to vent, and then move on.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

ok I gave you the benefit of the doubt and asked a serious question yet you can't even answer. You will now be blocked as you clearly contribute nothing but childish flames to every discussion.

Puffdriver=ignore list, he/she earned it.

While you're over there, tell detoilet320 we said ,"hi.":blush:

 

[ExAF]

notice that when NWA guys talk about time frames, they tend to talk in a 10 year frame--when their retirements happen. The period immediately after, when Delta retirements kick into high gear, seem to get neglected.

Probably because the majority of the NWA pilots won't be around much after the 10 year point.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Well that is 1/2 true. 52% of this list is gone in the next 9 years.

 

[number11]

I agree 100% Thank God we do not have the mentality of throwing our junior guys under the bus. This merger is already damaging enough on our career expectations and quality of life.

Come on speedbird! If you guys get what you want a junior DAL guy like yourself will be seating fat and very happy because of this merger! Either way I dont see this merger damaging your career expectations or QOL! Good Luck!

 

[PuffDriver]

Probably because the majority of the NWA pilots won't be around much after the 10 year point.

Right, just in time for the fences to drop, and NWA pilots benefitting from Delta retirements whilst NWA's retirements stagnate. Kinda of a heads I win, tails you lose.

 

[Speedbird34]

Come on speedbird! If you guys get what you want a junior DAL guy like yourself will be seating fat and very happy because of this merger! Either way I dont see this merger damaging your career expectations or QOL! Good Luck!

I hope you get to see my face after this list comes out. Even with Delta getting everything Delta MEC wants I will still be sad and would have lost 4000+ numbers on the list. I never had any love for this merger and I do not see one benefit to me personally from merging with Northwest. Maybe an equity of $20000 if the shares do not keep sinking like a rock. Then I can look forward to displacements, layoffs, terrible schedules and the best part a hateful pilot group. I did my displacement bid yesterday. Hopefully I get a B737N in LAX. My nightmare is ending up in the Northwest system on a DC9 having to listen to some hateful Northwest captain tell me how lucky I am the merger took place. I would feel like I was thrown into a pit full of crap by my MEC. I am almost certain I will never bid a airbus, DC9 or B747. I am just happy with my life the way it is and I have no desire for a Northwest airplane or base. By the way I live in Minneapolis. I would rather commute so that I fly mostly with Delta pilots. The bitterness between the two groups after this all ends I want to avoid at all cost.

 

[number11]

I hope you get to see my face after this list comes out. Even with Delta getting everything Delta MEC wants I will still be sad and would have lost 4000+ numbers on the list. I never had any love for this merger and I do not see one benefit to me personally from merging with Northwest. Maybe an equity of $20000 if the shares do not keep sinking like a rock. Then I can look forward to displacements, layoffs, terrible schedules and the best part a hateful pilot group. I did my displacement bid yesterday. Hopefully I get a B737N in LAX. My nightmare is ending up in the Northwest system on a DC9 having to listen to some hateful Northwest captain tell me how lucky I am the merger took place. I would feel like I was thrown into a pit full of crap by my MEC. I am almost certain I will never bid a airbus, DC9 or B747. I am just happy with my life the way it is and I have no desire for a Northwest airplane or base. By the way I live in Minneapolis. I would rather commute so that I fly mostly with Delta pilots. The bitterness between the two groups after this all ends I want to avoid at all cost.

Speedbird! Dont be so hard on yourself! You didnt lose 4000+ numbers! If you get what Delta MEC wants believe me in the long run you will benefit from this merger! As far as displacements, layoffs, and terrible schedules("hateful pilot groups" it is what it is) that comes along with this sh!tty industry and the hardtimes we are going through! That sh!t could happen weather this merger happened or not! Hopefully, the people running this ship know more than us and are doing the right thing! Good luck!

 

[General Lee]

I hope you get to see my face after this list comes out. Even with Delta getting everything Delta MEC wants I will still be sad and would have lost 4000+ numbers on the list. I never had any love for this merger and I do not see one benefit to me personally from merging with Northwest. Maybe an equity of $20000 if the shares do not keep sinking like a rock. Then I can look forward to displacements, layoffs, terrible schedules and the best part a hateful pilot group. I did my displacement bid yesterday. Hopefully I get a B737N in LAX. My nightmare is ending up in the Northwest system on a DC9 having to listen to some hateful Northwest captain tell me how lucky I am the merger took place. I would feel like I was thrown into a pit full of crap by my MEC. I am almost certain I will never bid a airbus, DC9 or B747. I am just happy with my life the way it is and I have no desire for a Northwest airplane or base. By the way I live in Minneapolis. I would rather commute so that I fly mostly with Delta pilots. The bitterness between the two groups after this all ends I want to avoid at all cost.

Come on now, get a hold of yourself. It won't be that bad. We don't know what the arbitrators will do, but supposedly it will be fair, and that is all anyone can realistically ask for. I think it will be close to a 7 to 5 ratio, with some "pull out, put in" type deal to deal with some of their attrition. Overall, I don't think you will have to fly a DC9 if you don't want to, and I don't think the 738 in LAX is senior, yet. You will have time to bid it before SOC I would think.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Speedbird34]

Speedbird! Dont be so hard on yourself! You didnt lose 4000+ numbers! If you get what Delta MEC wants believe me in the long run you will benefit from this merger! As far as displacements, layoffs, and terrible schedules("hateful pilot groups" it is what it is) that comes along with this sh!tty industry and the hardtimes we are going through! That sh!t could happen weather this merger happened or not! Hopefully, the people running this ship know more than us and are doing the right thing! Good luck!

Cheers guys lets hope it all works out for best. I am happy the end is near. I am tired of the waiting.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Speedbird:

You have company. From the Choir loft, "Amen"

If you notice the paper airplane model Richard Anderson sent us has a huge forward CG problem and only flies about 3 feet before digging a hole a couple of cm in the dirt. Not sure what the tail of a crashed airplane with "ONE GREAT AIRLINE" is supposed to model for us.

One of you Cat owners on the board need to fly this airplane in the general direction of the litter box and take a photo so we can laugh at the results.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

FWIW,
Ed Bastian at NATCO 18Nov08.

Yesterday, Ed Bastian, NWA CEO and DAL President came to NATCO (NWA Training building) and held a “Town Hall Meeting.” I took pretty copious notes but don’t claim that I got everything 100% correct. There were a few things I wrote verbatim – I’ll put those things in quotes. The rest is either paraphrased or my interpretation of what he said. My comments are in [Brackets]

While we waited for Bastian to show up, Bill Lentsch who is NWA’s Sr. VP of flight operations and SOC spoke. Just a few things:

>1st NWA jet to get DAL’s paint scheme will be (of course) a -400. Goes to the paint barn in Dec. The plan is to do the rest of the fleet in 15months. About 1 jet every 2-3 days.

>Uniform change for all “customer contact” personnel is 30Mar09.

>Plan to begin “cross fleeting” in Apr09. Cross fleeting is putting a NWA jet on a DAL route or vice-versa. The example he gave was ATL-NRT. Currently served by wussie little 777. In April, will become (super premium) -400. Flight will be marketed and sold by DAL (and code share partners), will fly from current DAL gates, boarded by DAL CSA’s. Flight will be NWA crew and ground crew. Dispatched by NWA SOC in MSP. He said the original plan was to do a lot of this prior to SOC (Single Operating Cert.) but it turns out it is harder to do then they had originally planned. Plan is to do this on about 14 total routes. No major change in block hours anticipated.

[If you have never heard Lentsch speak, he is a very impressive guy. He looks like he is about 23 years old, recognizes his people’s hard work, and seems to genuinely care about his folks. I’ve heard him speak three times now. Most of the time he knows the name of everyone in the room – I saw him address about 50 NATCO “building people” (non-pilots) and he called everyone who spoke to him by name. He can speak on any subject with supporting facts and seems to have a good command of our business. Reminds me a little bit of Richard. He wears his belt backwards, but hey, we can’t all be squared away Marine Corps trained Naval Aviators, can we?]



Then Bastian spoke. The NWA people in the room had never heard anyone in Sr. Management say some of the things he said (at least not without them lying.)

>”We must take care of the people who will take care of our employees”

>The future is bright. Our opportunities are incredible.

>We are going to re-brand NWA to DAL. New paint, new Uni’s, new everything. But we don’t want to loose all the great things NWA brings to the table. [I wonder if this means that NWA will actually clean the inside of our planes and our terminals?]

>We have some oil hedges in the $100-120/bbl range. He didn’t say how much is hedged or for how long.

>Revenue for 09 will probably be down about 10%. Capacity will probably be lower. Most capacity cuts will be Intl. Domestic has already been cut in response to high oil, we just won’t bring it back as fast as we would have. Despite capacity cut and revenue loss, he thinks if Oil stays in the 50’s we should post a profit in 2009.

>We are already seeing a downturn in bookings. Many people are putting off vacations and company business flying. Then he told a story about how his wife told him they needed to put off a purchase that they were contemplating, so he knows what that is all about. [He made $4.6M last year. What could he not purchase, an island?]

>Financially, we have $6B in cash. [About $4B of which came from NWA!] “We are positioned to be aggressive.” We will be flexible and nimble.

>We are obligated to the pensions that NWA brings to the merger. “We are absolutely committed to honoring those pensions.”

>With the exception of HQ functions, we are absolutely committed to our presence in MSP. There is currently no plan to sell any buildings in MSP.

>They are working to re-negotiate the $250M bond with MAC. He said they had the cash to pay it off, but MAC would be stupid to force them to do that because it would release them from the obligations for an MSP presence stipulated in the bond. He also pointed out that paying off the bond would be of no benefit to the MAC or the people of Minnesota, because the bonds are all held by Wall Street.

[If you are NWA, you need to sit down before you read these next couple of items.]

>”Our employees are not being paid what they should be paid.”

>”This merger was made possible by employee sacrifice.”

>”You should be the best paid employees in the industry.” The way to get our employees to the highest pay tiers is to pay a competitive wage and then share the profits that they help generate.

>”We have got to get out of the business of putting our hands in employee’s pockets when times get tough.”

>2-3 years from now he thinks our airline will be 50% international. (Currently about 40%.)

>We are #1 US carrier to Asia, Europe, and #2 to South America.

Then he took questions. I am paraphrasing most of the answers.

Q: What are our fleet plans?
A: Too early to tell. Having many different types/sizes of A/C can be a glass half-full/half-empty thing. Downside is cost to maintain and train. Upside is the ability to put the exact right-size jet on each route.

787 is overweight, under specs, and late. “We have serious negotiations coming up with Boeing” over 787. Good news is we are a mostly Boeing carrier and can work this to our advantage. [I read that to mean we will get a good deal on other Boeing stuff to not cancel our order.] Airbus is “frothing a the mouth” at the prospect of selling to DAL. [BTW, current rumor at NATCO is order for 10 A330’s about to be announced at a good price.]

Q: What will happen with our competitors? Will there be more mergers?
A: I don’t know – I thought there would be more, but now it looks like for the time being, it will just be more alliances/code shares. If there is another merger United will be at the center of it.

United is hurting. Badly. Their employees can’t stand working for their leadership and their leadership can’t figure out what to do. The funniest thing he said all day: “We keep expecting United to show up on eBay.”

Q: Are we in a financial position to defend our turf? Specifically, SWA in MSP? [In other words, are we going to give up one of our fortress hubs like DAL did with AirTran in ATL?]

A: “Oh, we’ve got a nice welcome party for SWA.” We are doubling capacity on MSP-ORD and MSP-MDW a month before they begin service. [I think he said we are matching fares also, but I might have miss heard that.]

Q: What is going on with DC-9’s? There are rumors…

A: When oil was >$140/bbl, the DC-9 was not really cost effective to operate. The thought at the time was we would retire them “sooner rather than later.” Now the metrics have changed. “Later rather than sooner.” DC-9 fills the 100 seat niche currently unfilled at DAL. [Rumors flying around NATCO about DC-9 shuttle operation out of ATL or up and down east coast.]

>”No more RJ’s” “We have too many 50 seaters.” DAL is out of the RJ buying business.

Q: Hedges for future?

A: I don’t want to be too aggressive with hedges, because I think that the price of oil will be influenced by airline performance in the next year. (i.e. I think it will go down) Plan to hedge about 80% going out 18 months and 25% going out 3 years. At the first sign oil takes a serious upswing, well get in more.

Q: Are Delta pilots all sackless, company-hack, crapweasels who have never stood up to DAL about anything?
A: Yes.
[I may have mis-heard the question]
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My take: Despite the bad economic times – the future looks bright. DAL is getting some cash and a lesson in operational discipline from NWA. NWA has shed Steenland, Cohen, Rainey, and the other morons who ran us into the ground, ruined our brand, and couldn’t lead their way out of a paper bag. Richard is the same old Richard – smart, savvy, and recognizes the pilot group as the leaders of the company’s labor groups. I think they will be aggressive in defending our hubs and taking on our rivals (PIT-CDG for example).

If our two SLI teams would do their jobs and come up with a list, we will be ready to kick ass.[/FONT]