JetBlue PVC has voted to give away flying!

[Chairman]

But with no limit on the number of 78 seat flying you can see your 190's parked just as UAL parked there 737's

 

[F9 Driver]

Let me ask a few questions as a Newbie.

What Scope protection do we have right now? The way I understand it is we have none.

If ALPA is voted in is it true that all pay, benefits, etc freeze right where they are until a CBA is signed?

In the current environment I think 2-3 years to get a CBA isn't out of the question, so if I'm correct about pay and benefits everything is frozen for that time frame.

Now, back to scope if ALPA is voted in and everything is frozen the way I understand it we would have NO scope protection until a CBA is reached. So hypothetically the company could outsource as much flying as they want. But, if the new scope agreement is passed then 90% of our flying is protected and that number is frozen during CBA negotiations barring the company from giving flying away as a negotiation ploy. This is exactly what happened at Mesa airlines with Freedom. Alpa had no scope and while they were in negotiations management just started shifting flying to freedom so they could gain more negotiating capital.

Again just trying to get a grasp on the situation, perhaps some of my assumptions are wrong or I've gotten some bad info.

thanks

I'm not sure, but think that the status quo provision of the RLA would keep management from changing the operation while you negotiate. Of course they could start up another company to do the flying and code share. The Bloch decision at Midwest (that RAH flying 170s in Midwest livery wasn't a scope violation - simply code share) has gone unnoticed or unreported by labor, but I assure you that it hasn't by management.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

American eagle ATRs in san juan

 

[Lake Alice]

I don't like I said I'm a newbie just trying to get a picture of the situation. I would just hate to be 4 years down the road No CBA in sight and all the 190 flying has gone to Republic, when it could have been capped at 10% before ALPA was ever on the property. Like I said just trying to gain some perspective so I can make an informed decision.

thanks

What the PVC has essentially done is provide Jetblue with a mechanism to start a separate airline, run separate flights with separate aircraft provided they aren't 320's. This is precisely what happens when you have pro-company pilots collaborating with company lawyers and subject matter experts. Non of the 4 who voted in favor have any true understanding of what scope is. But hey, just like the Ban of Blue will tell you, Dave and Jetblue will take care of you.

 

[Lake Alice]

I'm not sure, but think that the status quo provision of the RLA would keep management from changing the operation while you negotiate. Of course they could start up another company to do the flying and code share. The Bloch decision at Midwest (that RAH flying 170s in Midwest livery wasn't a scope violation - simply code share) has gone unnoticed or unreported by labor, but I assure you that it hasn't by management.

After you file with the NMB in theory nothing is supposed to change. Jetblue can and will, as they already do, make changes to our operation and our PEA's. The difference is we will be able to sue to reverse the changes. During Hawaiians negotiations their management pulled a similar stunt. ALPA on behalf of the pilot group sued, lost, appealed and won.

 

[Flyby1206]

Dont do it... its like your virginity, once you give it away then its gone for good!

I work for Eagle, and I would be willing to bet we would be one of the regionals in consideration for some flying if you gave up scope. DONT let it happen. Please.

 

[Fubijaakr]

What a disaster! While the same thing could have happened under ALPA, at least the pilots would have had an opportunity to vote on it.

As it stands, blue pilots are left with BOHICA.

Allegiant and Virgin pilots need to take notice of what can and will happen to you without a CBA.

 

[johnsonrod]

Word is that Cape Air is integrating 300+ C402s into the JB system for pax feed. Thankfully there will be a flow-through (both ways) agreement put in place to protect your interests.

 

[Chairman]

What a disaster! While the same thing could have happened under ALPA, at least the pilots would have had an opportunity to vote on it.

At UAL PW signed the side letter to try to save his pension allowing the E170's onto the property with no kind of snap back language if the pension went away. This was not voted on. This eventually let to all the 737 being parked and 1437 pilots going to the street

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

I don't like I said I'm a newbie just trying to get a picture of the situation. I would just hate to be 4 years down the road No CBA in sight and all the 190 flying has gone to Republic, when it could have been capped at 10% before ALPA was ever on the property. Like I said just trying to gain some perspective so I can make an informed decision.

thanks

The fact remains that the company can do whatever it pleases, whenever it pleases, with or without the pilots' consent. Today, the company can say they will cap outsourced flying to 10%. 4 years down the road, they can change the agreement to 20%, etc. A perfect example is the Flight Scheduling Manual 2010. The company changed the manual (our work rules) and implemented it as they saw fit to do. The pilots cannot do a thing about it. This is the reality of the PEA. They have the right to amend it when and how they see fit.

Now let's say 1000 pilots sign a new PEA (allowing outsourced flying capped at 10% in exchange for a raise in pay), and 1000 pilots do not sign the same PEA. Are 1000 pilots (under the old PEA) now immune to the outsourced flying? Let's take it a step further. According to management, each PEA is an individual agreement between the company and the pilot. So if you want to try and enforce your PEA, you have to hire your own lawyer and present your own case to an arbitrator (keep in mind $$$). Can you see how this can be a problem if, say, 1000 pilots try and enforce a PEA? I fail to see how the state of NY would agree to 1000 separate arbitrations (case in point....3A).

My point is this: without a union, we as pilots have zero say in anything the company decides to do. With a union (in this case ALPA), at least we will have a seat at the table with a strong voice......even before a CBA is ever signed! Oh, btw, this ALPA will be made up of JetBlue pilots, elected by JetBlue pilots, and held accountable by JetBlue pilots.

Pro JetBlue
Pro Union
Vote ALPA!