JetBlue PVC has voted to give away flying!

[DonVersteed]

I don't care if it's a C-150... It should be a JB pilot if it has a JB tail... end story.

I agree... However, I don't like the speculation as to what the documents will say. In other words, the hype on this board and others, if proven incorrect, does more harm than good. Let's just wait and see what they say. Instead of guessing and reacting to rumors and spreading all the hype on these boards. I'll be the first to tell anyone on the ELT that they ruined a lot of good will if they try or suggest outsourcing.

 

[Lake Alice]

Many of us have spoken directly to the people who voted for and against these documents. These documents are not in our best interest. They are in the best interest of Jetblue. They do allow Jetblue to separate operations. They do essentially set up Jetblue as a holding company. They do allow outsourcing. They were signed by four pilots out of seven. These are indisputable facts.

Jetblue is a company who is looking out for itself and not its employees. Again, these are facts.

 

[DonVersteed]

Many of us have spoken directly to the people who voted for and against these documents. These documents are not in our best interest. They are in the best interest of Jetblue. They do allow Jetblue to separate operations. They do essentially set up Jetblue as a holding company. They do allow outsourcing. They were signed by four pilots out of seven. These are indisputable facts.

Jetblue is a company who is looking out for itself and not its employees. Again, these are facts.

Well, let's take a look and vote against them and get on with the ALPA drive. I'm just saying let's deal with facts once they are exposed and move on logically. I think that approach, is the one that makes sense and will help people make a good decision based on fact and not rumor. Right now there is no official document for us to look at.

 

[Lake Alice]

Fair enough.

 

[IrishjbPilot]

Here is a crazy idea DV...call one of the PVC members and ask them directly. I talked to 3 of them independently and outside of their difference of opinion (how they voted), the facts were the facts. They all admitted to 10% asm's and 78 seat limitations being put in place via the documents. Now, will it be approved by us, the pilot group....NO but its still in one of the 5 documents (section 15 document). If you dont belive us, just call one of them, any of them and ask. They can and will talk about it with you.

 

[cgmason1]

Hopefully after the documents are made public we can get on with the ALPA Drive.

Or even better...lets get on with it now.

Please....

 

[DonVersteed]

Here is a crazy idea DV...call one of the PVC members and ask them directly. I talked to 3 of them independently and outside of their difference of opinion (how they voted), the facts were the facts. They all admitted to 10% asm's and 78 seat limitations being put in place via the documents. Now, will it be approved by us, the pilot group....NO but its still in one of the 5 documents (section 15 document). If you dont belive us, just call one of them, any of them and ask. They can and will talk about it with you.

Here is a crazy idea? This is the type of crap I'm talking about. Screw you, and the horse you rode in on. I'll call them if I had their number but I don't. Just like I don't think you have thier number. You can say it as fact, but until we all see the documents I'm not going to speculate as to what they say. You may be right, but they haven't been published yet and until they are, you are just speculating. Take your inside info. and use it how you like, but I will react when they are published as what is officially proposed.

 

[BeachBummer]

Go to the pvc web site... they are all there if you would like to make a phone call. Or, if you don't wanna call, send an email, you know their names right?

go to the company web: pilots===> values committee===> contacts
drop em a line.

if your not a jb pilot don't bother clicking it's pw protected site.

By the way, I'm with you on all the speculation.

this one is gonna be a bombshell and we (the pilots) are gonna take the hit. This "different" airline is setting up to be just like every one else. I truly hope we're wrong.

 

[Dizel8]

They all admitted to 10% asm's and 78 seat limitations being put in place via the documents.

That's is what I got from talking to a couple of them!

 

[F9 A319]

Hypothetically, if this is true and if the pilots vote "No" on it, will the Company honor the vote?

Has Management done or not done something based on a vote of the pilots in the past?

If the vote is a resounding "No" (or even if it's a close "No") and they proceed anyway, do you have any recourse?

Prior to getting the Bus here at F9, Flt Ops Management polled the pilots on whether we wanted "cross hair" or "v-bar" flight directors. We responded 80% in favor of the V-bars, then got a memo that the Company was going with cross hair F/D's because they were cheaper. It would have been better to have never asked in the first place....

Not that it was an issue as important as this.

 

[BeachBummer]

Hypothetically, if this is true and if the pilots vote "No" on it, will the Company honor the vote?.

I wish I knew... I would just have to assume that the company doesn't give a steaming pooo what this pilot group thinks and they are giong to go forward with whatever it is they have planned on doing.

Has Management done or not done something based on a vote of the pilots in the past?.

FSM...

If the vote is a resounding "No" (or even if it's a close "No") and they proceed anyway, do you have any recourse?.

nope

Prior to getting the Bus here at F9, Flt Ops Management polled the pilots on whether we wanted "cross hair" or "v-bar" flight directors. We responded 80% in favor of the V-bars, then got a memo that the Company was going with cross hair F/D's because they were cheaper. It would have been better to have never asked in the first place....

Not that it was an issue as important as this.

Seen this, they make rules change them, break them. Delay, stall, don't show to meetings... the list goes on. They are the perfect managment, they have the work force snowed. The days of Neelmans employee first has come and gone. Lets read the documents!

 

[rjpilot7667]

Here is a crazy idea? This is the type of crap I'm talking about. Screw you, and the horse you rode in on. I'll call them if I had their number but I don't. Just like I don't think you have thier number. You can say it as fact, but until we all see the documents I'm not going to speculate as to what they say. You may be right, but they haven't been published yet and until they are, you are just speculating. Take your inside info. and use it how you like, but I will react when they are published as what is officially proposed.

go to your happy place angry man.

 

[Splert]

Let me ask a few questions as a Newbie.

What Scope protection do we have right now? The way I understand it is we have none.

If ALPA is voted in is it true that all pay, benefits, etc freeze right where they are until a CBA is signed?

In the current environment I think 2-3 years to get a CBA isn't out of the question, so if I'm correct about pay and benefits everything is frozen for that time frame.

Now, back to scope if ALPA is voted in and everything is frozen the way I understand it we would have NO scope protection until a CBA is reached. So hypothetically the company could outsource as much flying as they want. But, if the new scope agreement is passed then 90% of our flying is protected and that number is frozen during CBA negotiations barring the company from giving flying away as a negotiation ploy. This is exactly what happened at Mesa airlines with Freedom. Alpa had no scope and while they were in negotiations management just started shifting flying to freedom so they could gain more negotiating capital.

Again just trying to get a grasp on the situation, perhaps some of my assumptions are wrong or I've gotten some bad info.

thanks

Not correct.

Status quo applies to CBAs. We can argue anti union animus but that is a long shot.

Pay attention to the road shows. You will find that if the PVC goes away so does your so called scope protections.

Good luck.

 

[UpNDownGuy]

Here is a crazy idea? This is the type of crap I'm talking about. Screw you, and the horse you rode in on. I'll call them if I had their number but I don't. Just like I don't think you have thier number. You can say it as fact, but until we all see the documents I'm not going to speculate as to what they say. You may be right, but they haven't been published yet and until they are, you are just speculating. Take your inside info. and use it how you like, but I will react when they are published as what is officially proposed.

And then you lose the moral high ground with your crazed over-reaction to this post. What were you advocating again? A "professional" approach?

 

[RiddleEagle18]

so when is the document supposed to come out?

 

[BeachBummer]

After the verbal "handshake" the PVC should have the "documents" by the 18th for distribution to the pilots by months end. This per the PVC this morning.

 

[Floatplane]

I really think this is for AE ATRS in San Juan. I hate to see scope go anywhere though.

Wondering if it would it change anyone's mind if it limited in to 78 seat props?

No it would not! B6 code, alter ego, etc.......Flown by B6 pilots! End of story.

 

[Draginass]

Sounds like B6 pilots are about to take a royal screwing, without the vaseline.

 

[DonVersteed]

And then you lose the moral high ground with your crazed over-reaction to this post. What were you advocating again? A "professional" approach?

You're right... Nothing left to say.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Is going from zero protection to a 10% limit not an improvement?