JetBlue PVC has voted to give away flying!

[BeachBummer]

Don't you mean a "kick in the teeth"?

LOL, yes yes I stand corrected!

 

[Dizel8]

I agree... However, I don't like the speculation as to what the documents will say. In other words, the hype on this board and others, if proven incorrect, does more harm than good. Let's just wait and see what they say. Instead of guessing and reacting to rumors and spreading all the hype on these boards. I'll be the first to tell anyone on the ELT that they ruined a lot of good will if they try or suggest outsourcing.

Talked to the ELT yet?

 

[tico]

So, assuming that this package gets a no vote from the pilots....is corp. jblu required to acknowledge and abide....I am guessing that somewhere in the articles of incorporation that there is an article that requires compliance with the pvc(?) or elt(?) vote....a slightly more refined version of representation than the "7 mustaches" program that the rest of us pay for....good on y'all

 

[BeachBummer]

I'm not sure how the mustache program works, but the 5 documents were voted forward or a "yes" buy about 60%.

Yes there are certain things that are required to have PVC compliance or pilot votes attached, but if the company decides not to abide, we cannot fight it together. You take your personal opinion to your CP and he'll review it.

At the end of the day these documents let the company do what ever they want, just like before. Now they just have a paper from the pilots that says it's ok.
It's ok to give away flying...
It's ok to merge seniority with a 50 seat operator...
It's ok to create a alter ego operator...
It's ok

We get all these improvments along with an increase in pay, 401k contributions, better rigs, improved healthcare and retirment... no wait, yea we don't get any of that stuff. Just the it's ok stuff.

So to answer your question Tico, I think it's no, not required to do anything.

 

[airplane wizard]

Cool...."JetBlue Express" Are they hiring?

 

[fifty30retard]

There is no "culture". It is about money and B6 not paying industry standard major airline compensation and benefits. If you're dumb enough to accept mediocre retirement and benefits, then you're dumb enough to work here. Welcome aboard.

 

[BeachBummer]

There is no "culture". It is about money and B6 not paying industry standard major airline compensation and benefits.

This I 100% agree.

 

[$$$4nothin]

There is no "culture". It is about money and B6 not paying industry standard major airline compensation and benefits. If you're dumb enough to accept mediocre retirement and benefits, then you're dumb enough to work here. Welcome aboard.[/QUOTE]

How was the retirement and benefits when you started at JB. You were obviously dumb enough to accept it and work here.

 

[DonVersteed]

There is no "culture". It is about money and B6 not paying industry standard major airline compensation and benefits. If you're dumb enough to accept mediocre retirement and benefits, then you're dumb enough to work here. Welcome aboard.[/QUOTE]

How was the retirement and benefits when you started at JB. You were obviously dumb enough to accept it and work here.

You're exactly right. Was all good when they needed a job, but now everyone is pissed because of the ALPA thing and it's embarasing. All the negativity is working the other way. The on the fence guys are running because of the anger and Inconsistency.

 

[Lake Alice]

Jetblue was a stepping stone to a major back then and still is now.

A few years ago we had a significant amount of turnover and Jetblue leadership decided they needed to make some changes. Some declarations were made about Jetblue becoming a career destination carrier. The pilot group bought in and the surveys, committees and rhetoric began. After a few more years of little to no changes a union vote ensued. Again, more declarations and promises by leadership were made and the union was voted down. After no changes were made and second union vote was taken. Again, leadership promised changes and the union was voted down. Recently the CFO was quoted as saying their would absolutely be no changes to benefits, pay or retirement. So here we stand today in much the same manner as 2001, 2002, 2003, etc...

Jetblue is still a stepping stone to a major airline.

If you have the opportunity to read Deltas latest pay and benefits comparison you will see how jebtlue stacks up comparatively. It's very frustrating for this pilot group since over half continue to vote no for representation while our benefits, retirement, schedule and scope continue to suffer.

 

[BeachBummer]

How was the retirement and benefits when you started at JB. You were obviously dumb enough to accept it and work here.

Frankly if any argument is old... it's this one.

 

[fifty30retard]

There is no "culture". It is about money and B6 not paying industry standard major airline compensation and benefits. If you're dumb enough to accept mediocre retirement and benefits, then you're dumb enough to work here. Welcome aboard.[/QUOTE]

How was the retirement and benefits when you started at JB. You were obviously dumb enough to accept it and work here.

Well, we were told our stock options would make us a millionaire in retirement and so our 401K wouldn't need to be as much as other airlines because of us being millionaires and such, spoken by Dean Melonas on day 1.

Benefits had no deductable and premiums were very low.

In short, the dumb part was believing anything an airline manager would utter.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

You're exactly right. Was all good when they needed a job, but now everyone is pissed because of the ALPA thing and it's embarasing. All the negativity is working the other way. The on the fence guys are running because of the anger and Inconsistency.

The guys on the fence ran because of all the lies and BS that bombarded them during the campaign from the company and Boobs. If the OC had been able to mass email as some anti-alpa pilots had then the outcome could have been different. Almost everyday there was either and email or f_cking postcard in the mail. Even the wife was tired of it.

 

[fifty30retard]

If codeshare brings in more pax that connect on the mainline, then who cares....especially if it makes the company more money. GMAFB.

Well skippy, 167 airplanes equal about 25,000 seats, so you've agreed to give up 2500 seats or about 30 E170s on the B6 property operated by Republic, or some feeder operation. You just added 400 pilots, not B6, on property and 200 of them are Captain jobs. You've also retarded your upgrade by 2 years minimum. That's the problem, I mean, that's your problem.

Is being stupid a B6 trait? Seems to follow them everywhere.

 

[Smarta$$]

Well skippy, 167 airplanes equal about 25,000 seats, so you've agreed to give up 2500 seats or about 30 E170s on the B6 property operated by Republic, or some feeder operation. You just added 400 pilots, not B6, on property and 200 of them are Captain jobs. You've also retarded your upgrade by 2 years minimum. That's the problem, I mean, that's your problem.

Is being stupid a B6 trait? Seems to follow them everywhere.

Instructordudette is flamebait. Ignore her.

 

[$$$4nothin]

Well, we were told our stock options would make us a millionaire in retirement and so our 401K wouldn't need to be as much as other airlines because of us being millionaires and such, spoken by Dean Melonas on day 1.

Benefits had no deductable and premiums were very low.

In short, the dumb part was believing anything an airline manager would utter.

You have been here since day 1. So you make $250k ish a year. Get 17ish days off a month, and yet you are still on FI whining, complianing, and constantly bitching. Who is the dumb one now. Go find a new hobby

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Well skippy, 167 airplanes equal about 25,000 seats, so you've agreed to give up 2500 seats or about 30 E170s on the B6 property operated by Republic, or some feeder operation. You just added 400 pilots, not B6, on property and 200 of them are Captain jobs. You've also retarded your upgrade by 2 years minimum. That's the problem, I mean, that's your problem.

Is being stupid a B6 trait? Seems to follow them everywhere.

Bingo.

 

[fifty30retard]

You have been here since day 1. So you make $250k ish a year. Get 17ish days off a month, and yet you are still on FI whining, complianing, and constantly bitching. Who is the dumb one now. Go find a new hobby

Someone asked a question and I answered it. Is this troubling for you?

 

[CapnVegetto]

Well skippy, 167 airplanes equal about 25,000 seats, so you've agreed to give up 2500 seats or about 30 E170s on the B6 property operated by Republic, or some feeder operation. You just added 400 pilots, not B6, on property and 200 of them are Captain jobs. You've also retarded your upgrade by 2 years minimum. That's the problem, I mean, that's your problem.

Is being stupid a B6 trait? Seems to follow them everywhere.

I suppose before the 5 docs they couldn't do that, right?

 

[Lake Alice]

If Jetblue uses the 10% of ASM's for a regional/alter-ego feed this moronic pilot group agreed to it does not add jobs. What initially happens is those aircraft and routes are based on Jetblues current ASM's. Once the regional/alter-ego aircraft are in place and operating on our routes Jetblue begins to pull back mainline flying. There is no contractual obligation in our lauded 5 documents to re-asses the ASM's on a yearly basis and adjust the regional/alter-ego flying.

 

[CapnVegetto]

If Jetblue uses the 10% of ASM's for a regional/alter-ego feed this moronic pilot group agreed to it does not add jobs. What initially happens is those aircraft and routes are based on Jetblues current ASM's. Once the regional/alter-ego aircraft are in place and operating on our routes Jetblue begins to pull back mainline flying. There is no contractual obligation in our lauded 5 documents to re-asses the ASM's on a yearly basis and adjust the regional/alter-ego flying.

Quite true. But again, before the 5 docs, they could just do whatever the hell they wanted. They could have farmed out our entire route structure to Republic if they wanted to.

 

[Lake Alice]

I don't disagree with you at all. I simply like to point out to the masses these documents are not what the company/PVC claim they are. We are not any more protected than we were before and in some cases we are worse of. My other point is too many Jetblue pilots simply didn't read the documents.

 

[CapnVegetto]

I don't disagree with you at all. I simply like to point out to the masses these documents are not what the company/PVC claim they are. We are not any more protected than we were before and in some cases we are worse of. My other point is too many Jetblue pilots simply didn't read the documents.

I don't disagree. People say they are a 'starting point', but if AA or WN decides to buy us tomorrow, that 'starting point' isn't going to do us much good.

We need a CBA.

 

[fifty30retard]

I suppose before the 5 docs they couldn't do that, right?

Now you appear to waking from your slumber. Yes they could do that, but you could also take them to mediation/arbitration ala 3A, and you did, if you were smart. They were so upset two years ago by the 3A mediation/arbitration, they hatched this faux protection scheme to keep you out of collective arbitration forever.

It seemed to have worked. Good job signing any rights away you might have had.

 

[Fins Up]

I suppose before the 5 docs they couldn't do that, right?

The company being able to do that without our approval is one thing. Signing the docs to give them our blessing on it is another.

 

[CapnVegetto]

The company being able to do that without our approval is one thing. Signing the docs to give them our blessing on it is another.

I suppose that it depends on one's perspective. You could look at it as a blessing to outsource, or you could look at it as 'well at least now we have SOMETHING.'

I choose to be a glass as half full person. I don't care if it's viewed as a blessing. The fact that they could have done whatever they wanted before them without us saying a damn thing is what I look at.

Both points are valid, though.

 

[fifty30retard]

I suppose that it depends on one's perspective. You could look at it as a blessing to outsource, or you could look at it as 'well at least now we have SOMETHING.'

I choose to be a glass as half full person. I don't care if it's viewed as a blessing. The fact that they could have done whatever they wanted before them without us saying a damn thing is what I look at.

Both points are valid, though.

You can't collectively dispute anything now. How is that a glass half full? It appears to be a glass steamrolled.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

Quite true. But again, before the 5 docs, they could just do whatever the hell they wanted. They could have farmed out our entire route structure to Republic if they wanted to.

They can still do whatever they want after the 5 docs. By signing in favor of the 5 docs, you now give them your permission to farm out flying while also limiting what you can do to stop them. The bait they are using now is to agree to a merger after outsourced flying reaches a certain number of ASM's. Of course, there is absolutely no detailed information as to how the pilot groups would be merged.

Why anyone would agree to ANY outsourced flying is beyond me. The company provided a voting period, while sending postcards to our homes saying to vote yes to the 5 docs. Do you see the problem here? The company is REPRESENTED by a team of lawyers and other third party professionals who write these documents and then promote them. Who do the pilots have? Now after you sign the 5 docs into your PEA, you will not be allowed to attempt any enforcement of your PEA as a group unless the company gives you permission to do so. How does any of this protect you?

 

[StarChecker]

Why anyone would agree to ANY outsourced flying is beyond me. The company provided a voting period, while sending postcards to our homes saying to vote yes to the 5 docs. Do you see the problem here? The company is REPRESENTED by a team of lawyers and other third party professionals who write these documents and then promote them. Who do the pilots have? Now after you sign the 5 docs into your PEA, you will not be allowed to attempt any enforcement of your PEA as a group unless the company gives you permission to do so. How does any of this protect you?

La la la la.....free pizza....la la la....goatees...la la la...leather jackets....Dave came to our BBQ....no hats....la la la

 

[Otto77]

They can still do whatever they want after the 5 docs. By signing in favor of the 5 docs, you now give them your permission to farm out flying while also limiting what you can do to stop them. The bait they are using now is to agree to a merger after outsourced flying reaches a certain number of ASM's. Of course, there is absolutely no detailed information as to how the pilot groups would be merged.

Why anyone would agree to ANY outsourced flying is beyond me. The company provided a voting period, while sending postcards to our homes saying to vote yes to the 5 docs. Do you see the problem here? The company is REPRESENTED by a team of lawyers and other third party professionals who write these documents and then promote them. Who do the pilots have? Now after you sign the 5 docs into your PEA, you will not be allowed to attempt any enforcement of your PEA as a group unless the company gives you permission to do so. How does any of this protect you?

Can't we (those who do not support the 5 docs) just decline the amendment and then be able to live under the old PEA, thus being able to join up with fellow pilots who also declined in future issues? Has anyone gotten any legal group to take a look at the proposed PEA changes?