jetblue EMB-190 pay??!!!

[lowecur]

Spirit just announced they are pulling out of DEN. Competition is too strong from DTW on NWA and United. They pulled out of the DEN-FLL market as well as Frontier and TED proved to be too much. Yes Lowecur, I stand by words that they will remain a niche player.

AA

P.S. This actually came from a management smut e magazine. ATA Brief.

Hey, quit picking on me.

Actually I did read that. Did you feel the same way about B6 when they pulled out of ATL? Just a niche player would do something like that, right? Firm order for 35 new Airbus', and an option for 60 more is not a niche player. You should get your resume cleaned up as Arpey may have a bunch of 190's to replace you guys/gals in MD's for $75 per hr.

Have you noticed all the new B6 employees that thought it's about time to put their 2 cents in? I'm sure most of them are unemployed legacy carrier pilot's trying to posture the situation.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Any JetBlue guys or gals out there smart enough to figure out how to create our own message board? I am embarassed by the EMB rates but I would much prefer to discuss this amongst ourselves.

 

[Falconjet]

website?

B6 Bus Driver: Check out www.ALPA.org. That would be a good place for you guys to start.

FJ

 

[Mr Hat]

I wasn't going to say anything on this subject, however I feel I must add my 2 cents. The pay rates are a little low, that is true. But for those of you who are bashing the JetBlue pilots....who's responsible for setting the precident that allowed JB management to come up with such rates? Don't know, I'll be glad to let you in on it. It is the all powerful pilots of the ALPA legacy carriers. YOU guys allowed EMB145's and CL-65s to be flown at the regionals, YOU guys didn't think it would ever be your problem besides who wants to fly such a little thing, YOU guys didn't support your fellow ALPA regional pilots by standing with them and saying "You can't pay a jet pilot turbo prop wages!" Nope, ALPA national just ignored it, they never thought it would enter the cockpit of their lofty 737 so they didn't care...they even signed that Mesa contract which allowed aircraft larger than 50 seats to be flown at the 50 seat rate. Now its on your doorstep and you blame the pilots at JetBlue?!? Look in the Mirror.

USAir pays their EMB170 pilots about the same I make on the E145 AND to cap it all off, they arent flying them AT Usair. At least they could have captured the flying!!

JetBlue on the other hand is flying their own EMB190's, they arent farming it out to the regionals like every other airline is. SO While the pay rates are lower than expected, at least they are being flown at JetBlue by JetBlue pilots. The pay rates will go up sooner or later and the flying is right where it should be! Retaining your flying is almost as important as pay rates, so in that respect they are still ahead of the game.

My App stays in! Call me!

 

[thruthemurk]

My Hat,


My hat is off to your good post. I totally agree that ALPA screwed the pooch for the last 15 years on the major/regional issue and is principally responsible for the mess this career finds itself in - including the RJ rates that are out there.

On the other hand, the Jetblue management continually refers to how much better they are going to do things and not follow in the tracks of the legacy carriers. They are going to "do the right thing". The fact that they will screw the 190 rates down this low is playing off of the sh&tty stage that ALPA built instead of using their own principles to determine a rate.

Rather than using their own integrity to establish a fair rate for the pilots of a 100 seat jet, they appear to be going as low as the market will possibly bear.

 

[8vATE]

Well...


I realize the EMB rates are low compared to the historical 100 seat rates...

But where was all this outcry on the current A320 rates... not to mention the "original" A320 rates...??

For instance...

NWA 2003 Year 5 Cpt A320 rate... $200/hr
DAL 2004 Year 5 Cpt B737-700DLX $209/hr

Jblu Year 5 A320 Cpt Composite Rate (81hrs month) $128/hr...

So I don't think the EMB rates are that much of a surprise...
This isn't new ground they're breaking...

Maybe the fact that the company has a sustainable business plan when just about everyone else doesn't should say something about the reality of today's marketplace...

 

[vetteracer]

Maybe the fact that the company has a sustainable business plan when just about everyone else doesn't should say something about the reality of today's marketplace...

That speaks Volumes.

I wonder if JB is gearing down and trying to reach critical mass. That way, when either US-Air or UAL tanks they can jump in and pounce on a portion of the market. I think JB’s business model involves coming out the other end of this storm with the most chips. They may not have the most money in the bank at the end, but with a good business plan in place and markets ripe for the picking, maybe they can get Garagos (sp) to chip in some venture capital to propel JB into the next legacy carrier.

Sure these pay rates are down and dirty, but I would sign up. I believe that JB has a good thing going and if you are willing to weather the storm then you will have the opportunity to get in early.

As long as man is working the economy will get better. Positioning yourself is the key and this is the million dollar question. The future is going to be different and holding on the past is not the answer. A business has to make money, and JB is doing that. When they reach critical mass, I think we will all wish we were on board.

Trust goes both ways, and I think that the big wheels will do what is right here and re-vamp the pay scale prior to going on line. It does not sound like they have let the pilot group down yet, so I would be surprised, not shocked, if they either augmented the rates with profit sharing or some type of bonus, or just raise the rate. There may be a reward in for the believers.

On another note, someone posted some minimums for the EMB –190, I thought the mins would stay the same for either the 190 or the 320?

Is there going to be upgradability from the 190 to the 320?

Mark

 

[pilot141]

Is there going to be upgradability from the 190 to the 320?

Sure these pay rates are down and dirty, but I would sign up.

Wow, it's good to see that JBLU can continue to count on the Kool-Aid effect for at least the forseeable future. When the Kool-aid wears off (and it will), you will be forced to look at JBLU like you would any other company - based on pay, work rules, upgrade time, retirement, etc. Expect the Kool-Aid to look a lot more like water in the next couple of years.

 

[skykid]

I can't believe so many seem to be shocked by these wages. Somebody gonna do your job for less money? Kinda sucks, huh? I don't think this is the bottom, maybe Branson can readjust whatever numbers he had in mind. This is the state of being a commercial pilot today and there is no sense trying to blame anybody. The two things I was hoping for in 2004 to get my flying career going were a massive increase in the price of jet fuel and an explosive increase in the number of seats available. Yeepee. Now if only a carrier hedged at $24/barrel would start a $39 a seat sale, that would be t!ts!

 

[pilot141]

Oh, and 8vATE, give it up.


The pay rates suck. Your company's business plan seems to be to pay the non-union pilots the lowest possible rate to fly a 100-seat jet.

Comparing the current 320 rates to NWA or DAL rates is pointless....unless, of course, you are using them as a benchmark and are trying to raise your rates to their level. Oh, you're not? Well, then back to your isolated Blue world where everything is happy.

BTW, when every carrier in the US tries to jam the 100-seat "standard" down the mainline throat at $35/hour, you can feel confident that you led the way!

But that's just the "reality of today's marketplace", isn't it?

 

[flyflorida2001]

It all works out in the end

Don't forget. JetBlue's goal is to give their pilots the best compensation in the industry, not necessarly the best salary. One of the reasons that our costs are so low, is the reduced labor costs. So...how does this work for both pilots and the company?

The pilots are paid a salary that is somewhere in the middle in terms of industry average. When times are good, the pilots are the best compensated in the industry. Last year, on top of their not bad/not great salaries, they also recieved lucrative stock options, profit sharing totaling 17% of their annual salary, and other benifits that in the end made them some of the best compensated in the industry.

On the flip side, by keeping the fixed salaries lower, if times get bad, the airline can still afford to keep all of its pilots (read NO FURLOUGH), and the pilots still have enough to live off of.

So on the surface, the new payscale for the EMB190 may not look competitive, but when you look deeper, I'd be happy to be flying one.

 

[Mr Hat]

A lot of the JetBlue guys are also stating the fact that the Airbus used to pay less when they started too. Jetblue management will do the right thing. You've heard the pilots saying that they arent happy with the pay rates, when management catches wind of how upset they are, I am pretty sure they will do the right thing. Hell, they may even start the airlplane out paying those rates but I am pretty sure that once they tweak the plan using actual data the pay will go up.

The E190 is the same airplane as the E170 plain and simple. Its like the E145 vs the E135. I've flown both 135/145 and from the front office you can't tell the difference. So really guys, it was an ALPA carrier that set this precident, not the Jetblue pilots nor was it management. I just want everyone to understand that. Now, the JB pilots have expressed their dismay with the pay on the E190, I'm not hearing too much from the Usair pilots.

ThruTheMurk, Thanks for the kind post.

To the other guys:
People are jumping on the pilots when they havent even had a chance to talk to their management about it. They just got the rates too, give it a little time.

 

[jetblue320]

So really guys, it was an ALPA carrier that set this precident, not the Jetblue pilots nor was it management. I just want everyone to understand that. Now, the JB pilots have expressed their dismay with the pay on the E190, I'm not hearing too much from the Usair pilots.

People are jumping on the pilots when they havent even had a chance to talk to their management about it. They just got the rates too, give it a little time.

That's because they are all working for Jetblue now!!

 

[canyonblue]

Now if only a carrier hedged at $24/barrel would start a $39 a seat sale, that would be t!ts!

And were hedged for 2005. Were kinda like Joan Crawford at the Pepsi board table in Mommy Dearest yelling "Don't f*ck with me fellas"

 

[Lear70]

So on the surface, the new payscale for the EMB190 may not look competitive, but when you look deeper, I'd be happy to be flying one.

At 450 hours total time I'm sure you would. Wait until you're at a regional trying to pound out a decent contract with respectable wages and get this thing thrown in your face...

The Daves should know better and as others have said, I hope the JB pilots calmly and respectfully but firmly make their feelings known to management on this issue as a little "wake-up" call... My hat's off to the JB pilots for speaking up NOW about pay rates that, in all likelihood, won't affect them - it's been a long time since this industry has seen that kind of acceptance of responsibility by a pilot group.

B6 - PM me if you want more details on private, password-protected, anonymous or non-anonymous message boards - they're cheap, easy to create (takes a few hours), and relatively secure (until someone in your OWN group gives their password to management or just prints the posts and hands them over).