jetblue EMB-190 pay??!!!

[General Lee]

This 100 seat pay scale just set all of the new pay scales at all of the regional airlines. Leo Mullin must be proud, along with Fred Greed and David Neeleman. They are all eating lunch at the golf club in Westchester County---all laughing with big cigars in their mouths! Think about it---every 70 seat contract will be put up next to this 100 seat one for Jetblue---and the company negotiator will ask, "listen fellas, you are flying a smaller plane and Jetblue is the benchmark. But, I will give you an extra dime an hour on per diem....." Sad but true. The current Jetblue guys shouldn't care--they will be flying A320s for the rest of their careers---and I know they did not decide on those figures. The Midatlantic 70 seater pay scales weren't as applicable because of the shape USAir was in when they created their pay scales--but Jetblue is doing well--and they still lowballed.(jetblue management)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[G4G5]

sad very, very, sad

 

[typhoonpilot]

I've read this whole thread and I don't think one person has mentioned what this pay scale will do to jetBlue's training costs. In my opinion they are going to skyrocket. Why ?, just thinking about how a pilot will progress from new hire EMB-190 F.O. to A-320 Captain. Four, count them, four training cycles. EMB-190 F.O., A-320 F.O. ( cause it pays a lot more ), EMB-190 Captain, and finally A-320 Captain.

It's very possible jetBlue management could have avoided that by making the pay scales closer to one another then it would have been a quality of life issue more than a pay issue. Guys would not have moved around as much, but with this pay scale there is really no choice. JetBlue management has just made a fundametal error. It will be interesting to see how they go forward now. Once they realize the folly of this pay scale will they erect training freezes that will just further anger the pilots ?

Generally speaking I'm a jetBlue fan and would love to see them succeed, but I was looking for $90/hr for EMB-190 Captain and something much better for the F.O. as well. How are they going to handle new hires on both the A-320 and EMB-190 next year at vastly different payscales ? How is that fair if you get a class in the 190 and the next month guys are in the 320 ? Can't happen, you say ? They are getting 17 of each next year or the year after, how is it going to work out ?

What a mess

 

[colorado418]

Yes, you are. You fail "Improving The Job 101". If many, many guys before you had not fought many battles in order to set the bar higher, your pay rates (yes YOURS, not some new hire 7 years from now) would be lower, and your work rules would be worse. Just because you won't have to live with a $35/hour pay rate doesn't mean that it won't suck for guys at YOUR airline.

I've seen senior guys "pull up the ladder" at legacy carriers when guys get furloughed, but you guys are pulling up the ladder before you even hire these people! (Note: I know you did not set the pay rates, but you don't have to defend the stinkin things!)

The new pay rates suck. There are parties going on right now at AMR, DAL, UAL, NWA, and many other corporate HQs. These pay rates will be thrown in everyone's face as the new "standard" for a 100-seat jet.

No, the answer is no. We don't have the airplane on the property yet. Read on and you will see that the guys that started the company here were paid quite a bit less than they are now. I.e., the pay in their initial contract was not what it is now. What does that mean? It means that they got a raise during the lifetime of the dreaded 5 year contract. Around $80.00 /hour is what the bus started at. They all got raises. When? After 9/11!! With retro pay!! No, I am not worried about what will happen in 2011. It is hard to understand without the benefit of having met Dave or David, but I know that the right thing will happen.

Another thing ASH, why do you shame Dean??? I don't think that the director of pilot recruitment should be getting crap for the pay scales. He probably did not have a tremendous amount if input into them...

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

Again it's amazing that so many of you find it appropriate to flame and expend so much energy commenting on how bad the JB pay scale is. Just out of curiousity, did you put the same efforts in pay scales or that matter, job preservation at you own companies. How many of you senior guys went to your union and say that you'd be willing to take pay concessions if it meant keeping the junior guys on the property. When you see the stickers that say something like "Full Pay to the Last Day", it's no wonder folks get upset. If you want to do something, write or call your congressman, senator, or the President and tell them you think that JB is bringing down the industry with it's pay also mention that it's still hiring folks at those bargain basement wages. And while you're, don't forget the "No Furlough Cause" in the pilot's contract. The pilots get paid a minimum of 70 hrs. no matter what if there's an economic turndown. Got to go fly!

 

[Flying Freddie]

All you naysayers don't have a lot of good to say about JetBlue, post after post. By the time the first 5 year pink slips go out JetBlue will have to start paying for the airplanes. That is when the whole house of cards will start to fall. Have a nice day.

 

[Lear70]

Again, the General hits it on the nose.

We just started our negotiations here at Pinnacle and our MEC's research shows that they could EASILY double our pay to around $120 an hour for 50-seat CRJ CA and still be very profitable. Most of us are shooting for about a 50% increase for the CA's, F/O's tied to about 60% of that, with some min days and duty rig improvements, which would give us a rate about what JB's 190 rate is!

Now our company is going to hold that over our heads during negotiations and unfortunately that, added to the Mesa fiasco, will probably hurt us just as badly as all the other factors put together.

This is not a slam on the jetBlue pilot group AT ALL, this is a slam against a management team that I always believed had done the right thing to date with their employee groups in the interest of continuing a positive culture of self-motivated, hard-working employees. Unfortunately, I do believe this is a step in the wrong direction for maintaining that culture.

Typhoon: training costs shouldn't increase that drastically in the short-term. From what I've heard from the top of the food chain there, 2-year seat locks for this aircraft will be in place once they make it on-property that prevent lateral moves from anything except 320 FO to 190 CA and 190 CA to 320 CA as seniority allows. Long-term is another story, but we'll see how the pay pans out as the curve starts rebounding at legacy carriers and furloughed guys start taking a closer look at their "blue culture" in the next 3 - 5 years.

 

[ATA73Pilot]

Wow...I thought ATA had truly lowered the bar in salaries for the 100-seat market.

ATA 2005 Rates based on 75 hours.

12 $120.00
11 $117.42
10 $114.28
9 $110.16
8 $107.34
7 $104.54
6 $101.78
5 $98.98
4 $96.29
3 $93.58
2 $90.89
1 $37.50

Of course...ATA will probably close up shop in a few years. Jet Blue on the othr hand will be around substantially longer.

 

[lowecur]

This 100 seat pay scale just set all of the new pay scales at all of the regional airlines. Leo Mullin must be proud, along with Fred Greed and David Neeleman. They are all eating lunch at the golf club in Westchester County---all laughing with big cigars in their mouths! Think about it---every 70 seat contract will be put up next to this 100 seat one for Jetblue---and the company negotiator will ask, "listen fellas, you are flying a smaller plane and Jetblue is the benchmark. But, I will give you an extra dime an hour on per diem....." Sad but true. The current Jetblue guys shouldn't care--they will be flying A320s for the rest of their careers---and I know they did not decide on those figures. The Midatlantic 70 seater pay scales weren't as applicable because of the shape USAir was in when they created their pay scales--but Jetblue is doing well--and they still lowballed.(jetblue management)


Bye Bye--General Lee

This will work both ways General.

Don't think the other end of the spectrum won't be affected. The contraction will work from the top on down when all new contracts are negotiated. The 190 will be the center point which all new negotiations will be based. Virgin will next in line to set the bar for the 319 and 320. I think Spirit, Air Tran, AWA, Frontier will all go lower in future contract negotiations, and ALK and NWA just hit a roadblock. WN is not off the hook either. That negotiation will really get cantankerous.

It will be interesting to see how this affects Greenjeans. He already wants another 25% more from the pilots than was originally requested. Wouldn't surprise me if he upped the ante again. I think he will see the handwriting on the wall.

 

[ATA73Pilot]

For Comparrison.

For Comparrison To Other Carriers With 75 Hour Guarantees:

Here are the Jet Blue Rates averaged for 75 hours (5 hours at 150%)

Year

12...93.81
11...91.71
10...89.60
09...88.55
08...86.44
07...84.33
06...83.28
05...81.17
04...80.12
03...78.01
02...75.91
01...74.85