jetblue EMB-190 pay??!!!

[8vATE]

Well...


I realize the EMB rates are low compared to the historical 100 seat rates...

But where was all this outcry on the current A320 rates... not to mention the "original" A320 rates...??

For instance...

NWA 2003 Year 5 Cpt A320 rate... $200/hr
DAL 2004 Year 5 Cpt B737-700DLX $209/hr

Jblu Year 5 A320 Cpt Composite Rate (81hrs month) $128/hr...

So I don't think the EMB rates are that much of a surprise...
This isn't new ground they're breaking...

Maybe the fact that the company has a sustainable business plan when just about everyone else doesn't should say something about the reality of today's marketplace...

 

[vetteracer]

Maybe the fact that the company has a sustainable business plan when just about everyone else doesn't should say something about the reality of today's marketplace...

That speaks Volumes.

I wonder if JB is gearing down and trying to reach critical mass. That way, when either US-Air or UAL tanks they can jump in and pounce on a portion of the market. I think JB’s business model involves coming out the other end of this storm with the most chips. They may not have the most money in the bank at the end, but with a good business plan in place and markets ripe for the picking, maybe they can get Garagos (sp) to chip in some venture capital to propel JB into the next legacy carrier.

Sure these pay rates are down and dirty, but I would sign up. I believe that JB has a good thing going and if you are willing to weather the storm then you will have the opportunity to get in early.

As long as man is working the economy will get better. Positioning yourself is the key and this is the million dollar question. The future is going to be different and holding on the past is not the answer. A business has to make money, and JB is doing that. When they reach critical mass, I think we will all wish we were on board.

Trust goes both ways, and I think that the big wheels will do what is right here and re-vamp the pay scale prior to going on line. It does not sound like they have let the pilot group down yet, so I would be surprised, not shocked, if they either augmented the rates with profit sharing or some type of bonus, or just raise the rate. There may be a reward in for the believers.

On another note, someone posted some minimums for the EMB –190, I thought the mins would stay the same for either the 190 or the 320?

Is there going to be upgradability from the 190 to the 320?

Mark

 

[pilot141]

Is there going to be upgradability from the 190 to the 320?

Sure these pay rates are down and dirty, but I would sign up.

Wow, it's good to see that JBLU can continue to count on the Kool-Aid effect for at least the forseeable future. When the Kool-aid wears off (and it will), you will be forced to look at JBLU like you would any other company - based on pay, work rules, upgrade time, retirement, etc. Expect the Kool-Aid to look a lot more like water in the next couple of years.

 

[skykid]

I can't believe so many seem to be shocked by these wages. Somebody gonna do your job for less money? Kinda sucks, huh? I don't think this is the bottom, maybe Branson can readjust whatever numbers he had in mind. This is the state of being a commercial pilot today and there is no sense trying to blame anybody. The two things I was hoping for in 2004 to get my flying career going were a massive increase in the price of jet fuel and an explosive increase in the number of seats available. Yeepee. Now if only a carrier hedged at $24/barrel would start a $39 a seat sale, that would be t!ts!

 

[pilot141]

Oh, and 8vATE, give it up.


The pay rates suck. Your company's business plan seems to be to pay the non-union pilots the lowest possible rate to fly a 100-seat jet.

Comparing the current 320 rates to NWA or DAL rates is pointless....unless, of course, you are using them as a benchmark and are trying to raise your rates to their level. Oh, you're not? Well, then back to your isolated Blue world where everything is happy.

BTW, when every carrier in the US tries to jam the 100-seat "standard" down the mainline throat at $35/hour, you can feel confident that you led the way!

But that's just the "reality of today's marketplace", isn't it?

 

[flyflorida2001]

It all works out in the end

Don't forget. JetBlue's goal is to give their pilots the best compensation in the industry, not necessarly the best salary. One of the reasons that our costs are so low, is the reduced labor costs. So...how does this work for both pilots and the company?

The pilots are paid a salary that is somewhere in the middle in terms of industry average. When times are good, the pilots are the best compensated in the industry. Last year, on top of their not bad/not great salaries, they also recieved lucrative stock options, profit sharing totaling 17% of their annual salary, and other benifits that in the end made them some of the best compensated in the industry.

On the flip side, by keeping the fixed salaries lower, if times get bad, the airline can still afford to keep all of its pilots (read NO FURLOUGH), and the pilots still have enough to live off of.

So on the surface, the new payscale for the EMB190 may not look competitive, but when you look deeper, I'd be happy to be flying one.

 

[Mr Hat]

A lot of the JetBlue guys are also stating the fact that the Airbus used to pay less when they started too. Jetblue management will do the right thing. You've heard the pilots saying that they arent happy with the pay rates, when management catches wind of how upset they are, I am pretty sure they will do the right thing. Hell, they may even start the airlplane out paying those rates but I am pretty sure that once they tweak the plan using actual data the pay will go up.

The E190 is the same airplane as the E170 plain and simple. Its like the E145 vs the E135. I've flown both 135/145 and from the front office you can't tell the difference. So really guys, it was an ALPA carrier that set this precident, not the Jetblue pilots nor was it management. I just want everyone to understand that. Now, the JB pilots have expressed their dismay with the pay on the E190, I'm not hearing too much from the Usair pilots.

ThruTheMurk, Thanks for the kind post.

To the other guys:
People are jumping on the pilots when they havent even had a chance to talk to their management about it. They just got the rates too, give it a little time.

 

[jetblue320]

So really guys, it was an ALPA carrier that set this precident, not the Jetblue pilots nor was it management. I just want everyone to understand that. Now, the JB pilots have expressed their dismay with the pay on the E190, I'm not hearing too much from the Usair pilots.

People are jumping on the pilots when they havent even had a chance to talk to their management about it. They just got the rates too, give it a little time.

That's because they are all working for Jetblue now!!

 

[canyonblue]

Now if only a carrier hedged at $24/barrel would start a $39 a seat sale, that would be t!ts!

And were hedged for 2005. Were kinda like Joan Crawford at the Pepsi board table in Mommy Dearest yelling "Don't f*ck with me fellas"

 

[Lear70]

So on the surface, the new payscale for the EMB190 may not look competitive, but when you look deeper, I'd be happy to be flying one.

At 450 hours total time I'm sure you would. Wait until you're at a regional trying to pound out a decent contract with respectable wages and get this thing thrown in your face...

The Daves should know better and as others have said, I hope the JB pilots calmly and respectfully but firmly make their feelings known to management on this issue as a little "wake-up" call... My hat's off to the JB pilots for speaking up NOW about pay rates that, in all likelihood, won't affect them - it's been a long time since this industry has seen that kind of acceptance of responsibility by a pilot group.

B6 - PM me if you want more details on private, password-protected, anonymous or non-anonymous message boards - they're cheap, easy to create (takes a few hours), and relatively secure (until someone in your OWN group gives their password to management or just prints the posts and hands them over).

 

[Twotter76]

What so many of the Blue-Aid drinkers here fail to realize is that it doesn't matter that the pay rate will likely end up being higher when the airplane actually flies - just by having those rates NOW you are screwing me and everyone else that flies a jet with less than 100 seats. How do you all expect the rest of us who are desperately trying to raise the bar (or at least hold it up) to be able to do it when you all will happily sell us down the river and say, "well i'll never have to fly it for those rates". I guarantee that I wont either because I am not flying a 100 seat jet for that rate. Period. Are there those that will? Of course. But not me. How do you think this will effect Coex's negotiations? Or Pinnacle's? Do you think it will be helpful? About as helpful as Mesa's POS contract was to ours no doubt. I guess it's true that aviation is cyclical because you guys just brought back the B scale in full force. Thanks alot.

A concerned regional pilot

 

[Kroll]

But hey, they got a Blue Polo shirt

 

[IB6 UB9]

Twotter 76

Definitely the pilots who are responsible here...shame on us. The rates are low, I agree, and I now kneel in front of you while you take my head off. (150+ posts on this thread, yours was the most idiotic, congrats).

 

[B6Busdriver]

B6 Bus Driver: Check out www.ALPA.org. That would be a good place for you guys to start.

FJ

Been there done that got the t-shirt and magazine. NO THANKS!!!!!

 

[vetteracer]

Quote

"just by having those rates NOW you are screwing me and everyone else that flies a jet with less than 100 seats."

JB is a business, and will do everything in it’s power to be competitive and take from it’s competition. That is the way it is in any industry in the world. Pay will increase with time, but if forced by the hand of a union, then JB will suffer the same fate all the legacy carriers are right now. You cannot pilfer a company to death and expect them to make it. When they are weak the vultures of competition will step in and pick the eyes out while you are down and out.

Things are a changing and better now then latter. When the dust blows away and things stable out, it can only go up from here.

Mark

 

[ASH]

it can only go up from here.


Now JBLU can feel better about itself.

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

Some of you (ASH, Twotter, etc.) seem to believe that we as a pilot group at JB went into mgmt. and said that we want these pay rates to screw all the other pilots in the industry. We are as unhappy about this as much if not more than the rest of the group. So should we refuse to work to protest our concerns, or maybe we should picket the JFK terminal. Lets see how many guys would cross the line to jumpseat home or come for our jobs. We will have an effect on mgmt. in due time regarding this issue. In the meantime, it makes no sense to get your undies in a wad at your "house" about problems at my "house". If you think that JB is bringing down your pay rates, then start making those guys who you paid your 2.5% or whatever to, to renegioate your contract and "protect" and improve your salaries. BTW, no matter how bad you flame the JB pilot group, you're still welcome in our jumpseats. All 158 of them.

 

[saltyswede]

don't blame us

We do not vote or have a say in the pay rate. For all of you that do not like the pay take a look at how many ALPA contracts that are being flown at the negotiated rate.

 

[ASH]

I have NEVER said nor implied that we are holding the pilot group resp. for this. I have gone out of my way to specify MGMT. The only way this could come back on your heads, is if you fail to make your voice known to the powers that be. We appreciate that some have mentioned the concern expressed for those who will be following after you. Two out of my four children aspire to be a prof. pilot someday. I'd like to preserve something they can be proud to be a part of.

 

[8vATE]

Oh, and 8vATE, give it up.


The pay rates suck. Your company's business plan seems to be to pay the non-union pilots the lowest possible rate to fly a 100-seat jet.

+++++++++++


Oh I gave it up PILOT141....

Yes the rates are low....
This industry is in shambles..
This is my fourth airline... and third major ...

So I believe I have an idea whats going on...

If you don't like the rates... go someplace else..
Why don't you check out the year 14 longevity rates at USAirways...
oh.. I forgot... those guys are furloughed..

So the EMB guys will make low to mid $80,000......
Then jump to the A320 in year 2 or 3 and make $120-$150k....

If you don't like it... go work at home depot or go back and fly your 141 for uncle sam...