Jeff is Challenging Scope.

[luckytohaveajob]

Exactly it is a CAL problem and CAL PILOTS need to address the problem. Not blame others for picking up the crumbs left behind.

CAL pilots are too stupid to look in the mirror.

 

[Flybywire44]

DONT RELEASE SCOPE! OFFER TO DO REGIONAL FLYING AT THE SAME RATES! That would be a pay raise for all current FOs who became Captains and you'd lay the foundation for future pilots to have longer seniority.

 

[jonjuan]

DONT RELEASE SCOPE! OFFER TO DO REGIONAL FLYING AT THE SAME RATES! That would be a pay raise for all current FOs who became Captains and you'd lay the foundation for future pilots to have longer seniority.

Mgmt will NOT fall for this sucker punch as A) they have to pay major airline benefits, B) they will lose the financial flexibility to outsource cheaply, and C) they know that once the flying is brought in house, higher rates will be demanded.

 

[JI Gone OH]

Mgmt will NOT fall for this sucker punch as A) they have to pay major airline benefits, B) they will lose the financial flexibility to outsource cheaply, and C) they know that once the flying is brought in house, higher rates will be demanded.

No one thinks that mgmt is going to "fall" for anything, but if Smisek's business plan for the new United going forward is to utilize 70+ seat aircraft, he better wrap his head around the idea that they're going to be flown by mainline pilots. Any TA that provides SCOPE relief will never pass. This isn't the same old Continental Ghost of Christmas Past. Oh, and while I'm at it Jeff, I wanted to personally thank you and your team for dragging your feet long enough with these contract negotiations to get us another 148 "NO" votes back on property. I'm sure they will come in handy...

 

[jonjuan]

No one thinks that mgmt is going to "fall" for anything, but if Smisek's business plan for the new United going forward is to utilize 70+ seat aircraft, he better wrap his head around the idea that they're going to be flown by mainline pilots. Any TA that provides SCOPE relief will never pass. This isn't the same old Continental Ghost of Christmas Past. Oh, and while I'm at it Jeff, I wanted to personally thank you and your team for dragging your feet long enough with these contract negotiations to get us another 148 "NO" votes back on property. I'm sure they will come in handy...

Just to be clear, are you saying that any cba which includes regional flying 51 seats and above won't pass? Or is it 70 seats and above? Or is it ALL regional flying? Just wondering what will contractually pass muster. Thx.

 

[JI Gone OH]

Just to be clear, are you saying that any cba which includes regional flying 51 seats and above won't pass? Or is it 70 seats and above? Or is it ALL regional flying? Just wondering what will contractually pass muster. Thx.

Yes, that is probably a better way of saying it; my apologies. Any TA that allows the regionals to fly 51 seats and above will not pass (excluding the current Q-400 loophole the company found). Continental's Scope clause is the best part of our current CBA, and we're not about to give that up. The culture at this place changing fast, one retirement at a time.

 

[Twisted Mind]

Let us not forget that contract carriers provide liability protection. Management knows aircraft accidents are going to happen. They use contract carriers to protect the main line from the lawsuits. Colgan is a great example they crashed and Continental claims to have no involvement or know anything about Colgan’s operations and walked away. Colgan will be a memory before the lawsuits are settled.

 

[densoo]

Let us not forget that contract carriers provide liability protection. Management knows aircraft accidents are going to happen. They use contract carriers to protect the main line from the lawsuits. Colgan is a great example they crashed and Continental claims to have no involvement or know anything about Colgan’s operations and walked away. Colgan will be a memory before the lawsuits are settled.

Yes. ..........

 

[jonjuan]

Let us not forget that contract carriers provide liability protection. Management knows aircraft accidents are going to happen. They use contract carriers to protect the main line from the lawsuits. Colgan is a great example they crashed and Continental claims to have no involvement or know anything about Colgan’s operations and walked away. Colgan will be a memory before the lawsuits are settled.

LOL-OK. If you think a driver of outsourcing is the deferral of liability, I have a long, fat bridge to sell you. Outsourcing simply provides flexibility and cost savings through whipsawing. Insurance covers liability and besides, attorneys will direct their attentions to where the money, and outsourcing decisions were made, big momma. Any jury of non aviators will tell you that. CAL had very little oversite which was probably on purpose. Speaking of regional vs. major safety, it was just a short time ago and the fortunate placement of a concrete building in DEN which fortunately allowed everyone to walk away from an epic disaster.

 

[rattler]

Let us not forget that contract carriers provide liability protection. Management knows aircraft accidents are going to happen. They use contract carriers to protect the main line from the lawsuits. Colgan is a great example they crashed and Continental claims to have no involvement or know anything about Colgan’s operations and walked away. Colgan will be a memory before the lawsuits are settled.

This is a hot topic in congress right now. Expect it to change.

 

[rattler]

Just a thought for some of you regional guys that have been bashing the mainline profession. When CAL/UAL wins 51+ seat scope, Delta and AMR will likely follow. According to the Boyd Group (and many others), the 50 seat RJ will be history in 10 years due to simple economics. Will your airline still pay $100K+ for you to fly whatever is left? When I look at it this way I understand why you so strongly support the continued decay of mainline jobs. For those that wish to work for a mainline carrier, all will be hiring in massive numbers with agressive movement due to attrition and addition of 51+ seat jets.

 

[jonjuan]

Just a thought for some of you regional guys that have been bashing the mainline profession. When CAL/UAL wins 51+ seat scope, Delta and AMR will likely follow..

No way in H E L L ual will completely give up their 51 seat scope overnight. It would cost them way too much. A slow phase out or drawdown I can see them doing, but no way they'll do it overnight. The lawsuits alone from the regionals who see contracts broken will be obscene. It'll be most interesting to see who alpa sides with as both majors and regionals will come crying should things not go their way.
The 51 seat drawdown will happen, but much more slowly than those at ual expect. Patience, grasshopper, patience.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

It'll be most interesting to see who alpa sides with as both majors and regionals will come crying should things not go their way.
The 51 seat drawdown will happen, but much more slowly than those at ual expect. Patience, grasshopper, patience.

How is ALPA going to defend Skywest and Republic? Neither is an ALPA carrier!

Yogi

 

[Flopgut]

How is ALPA going to defend Skywest and Republic? Neither is an ALPA carrier!

Yogi

Do their work agreements state that they will not honor a picket line? Because that's what it's possibly going to come to. Quickly.

 

[mamba20]

At this point I'm ready to either burn this place down or go on strike just out of the principle from all the BS since this whole contract negotiation started over 3 years ago.