Jeff is Challenging Scope.

[DontFeedTheBear]

I don't know what the internal numbers are and I hope ALPA is keeping track. All I know is what I see, and that is CRJ700's parked at C, UAL Express flights added to IAH. XJT charter shutting down to put the remaining 6 aircraft into UAL Express service. This is also not a current CAL or UAL route, so it is new flying.

It may be a new route, but are you sure it is new flying? There is growth at CAL mainline right now going on (and a litttle bit at UAL too), why do you think that all CAL furloughs are on the way back and they are gearing up to hire UAL furloughs. It's not just about the 787 that is possibly coming in late 2011. The mainline block hours are increasing at CAL to equalize the flying as per the Transition Agreement. It is not CAL's fault that UAL has their scope which still may have some room for the regionals. We need to fight for SCOPE as hard as ever and get the flying back! That will stop all this crap...

Yogi

 

[Whydoitry]

So a new route isn't new flying? I don't get that, this should be a 737-500 shouldn't it? Mainline block hours may be increasing, but so are XJT's (according to Sr. Dir. Flt Ops), and there are new routes for the other UAX carriers as well. I just don't know how you could be calm about this.

 

[nimtz]

NO but I am not dumb enough to blame someone for taking a job. Especially since the experience obtained from that job is required to make it to the big show. It is up to all main line pilots to protect their own jobs. Not the job of the “RJ” pilots to protect the job of the main line pilots. No one starts in this industry thinking yea I want to work for contract carrier!

It would be nice if you 'minor league' guys got some from of legitimate pay bump one of these years. Unlike the 50 seaters, each 70 seater destroys a mainline job 1:1. And while I understand the difficulities of battling the whipsaw of the contract feed business, I don't accept that as gospel.

I've heard far too many 5-10 year RJ capts try to justify that 80K w/weekends off is as good as it gets. When I was at a regional we fought hard for a contract that was light years better then a previous one from commuter days. Ever since the first 'strech RJ' showed up you guys flying 70 seaters have shown no b@lls for a fight. That's why management loves ya'...

 

[CFIT]

It would be nice if you 'minor league' guys got some from of legitimate pay bump one of these years. Unlike the 50 seaters, each 70 seater destroys a mainline job 1:1. And while I understand the difficulities of battling the whipsaw of the contract feed business, I don't accept that as gospel.

I've heard far too many 5-10 year RJ capts try to justify that 80K w/weekends off is as good as it gets. When I was at a regional we fought hard for a contract that was light years better then a previous one from commuter days. Ever since the first 'strech RJ' showed up you guys flying 70 seaters have shown no b@lls for a fight. That's why management loves ya'...

Again, the regional guys didn't vote to take the flying, the legacy guys VOTED to give it away.

 

[Flopgut]

It would be nice if you 'minor league' guys got some from of legitimate pay bump one of these years. Unlike the 50 seaters, each 70 seater destroys a mainline job 1:1. And while I understand the difficulities of battling the whipsaw of the contract feed business, I don't accept that as gospel.

I've heard far too many 5-10 year RJ capts try to justify that 80K w/weekends off is as good as it gets. When I was at a regional we fought hard for a contract that was light years better then a previous one from commuter days. Ever since the first 'strech RJ' showed up you guys flying 70 seaters have shown no b@lls for a fight. That's why management loves ya'...

Couldn't agree more.....

Specifically, the UAL scope clause (with regard to 70 seat airplanes) was voted away by one guy in a failed attempt to save a retirement plan.

Guys and gals flying these 70 seaters in UAL colors are kind of like the guy who goes to airshow with his Japanese Zero and is just a bit more proud of it than is appropriate. Yeah, it's kind of a cool plane, but....

 

["TheBigPicture"]

put out in the weekly update...

ALLIANCE OVERSIGHT
The MEC, MEC officers, Negotiating Committee and Alliance Committee are aware of the Company's announced plans to place the CO code on fleets of 70-seat jets operated out of IAH and EWR. We are analyzing these plans under the terms of our working agreement and will inform our pilot group of our conclusions as soon as we can.

Man I hope they fight this tooth and nail...cause it's pure BS. Already pisses me off when I see our "C" gates in IAH with 70 seaters on 'em, like Mgt is giving us two big middle fingers and laughing about it.uke:

 

[whatitdoing?]

This is just the start. It's apparent that Smisek doesn't care if we're on board. He's just another Lorenzo and if CAL/UAL ALPA doesn't get some balls and take the fight to them, we're screwed. I can't begin to explain how disappointed I've become with ALPA in general.

 

[Twisted Mind]

They maybe lifers now but I seriously doubt they started that way. All I am saying is quit blaming others for YOUR mistakes.

 

[LearLove]

Again, the regional guys didn't vote to take the flying, the legacy guys VOTED to give it away.

you guys need to take this attitude and shove it up your a$$. scope was not voted away, it was taken/stolen in ch11.

 

[RedRum]

Well if RAH was ALPA couldn't the pilots be persuaded to not fly these flights?

Now THAT is funny.

Pilots can't be persuaded not to do other pilots' flying. They will selfishly do whatever serves their own group. ALPA pilots are ALPA pilots' own worst enemy.

Veritas!

 

[145BOSS]

And either way, CAL did not give away scope. These flights are not listed as UA codeshare flights but as CO flights with CO flight numbers.

 

[DHPFLYN]

The regional and mainline pilots both need to get some balls and step up. You need to get together to stop this whole thing. Most of you mainline guys came from regionals so don't act as if you are all above the regional guys. As far as the regional guys who cares how the scope was lost but it's time to figure out how to get it back !! Flying 70 seat planes for that pay is nothing to brag about.

Work together and become one against management !!!! If we can figure this out we can win. Screw that railway act it's time to stand up and tell them how we all feel. If that means we all fly safe write everything up and nothing will ever be on time to last straw walk off the job. It sure works for the European pilots. They tell them what they are going to do and then do IT !!!

 

[Twisted Mind]

you guys need to take this attitude and shove it up your a$$. scope was not voted away, it was taken/stolen in ch11.

What?????? Nice piece of revisionary history. Was your company in CH11 when ALPA allowed Cessna 402's and other piston twins to be flown by contract carriers? How about Beech 99's? Dash 7 and 8's, Convair’s and Fokker’s? Then small RJ's. Remember Britt, Rocky Mountain, Bar Harbor?

 

[Twisted Mind]

I remember talking to Mesaba Captain that was angry about ALPA trying to “rearrange” the pay scale to help out the junior FO’s. He was telling me what a travesty it was that he would lose 1% of his pay raise and the FO’s would get a 5% raise. He just could not understand what is wrong with a FO sitting next to him making 20 G compared to his 80 G and what kind of statement that is to management.

 

[Mr.B]

Couldn't agree more.....

Specifically, the UAL scope clause (with regard to 70 seat airplanes) was voted away by one guy in a failed attempt to save a retirement plan.

Guys and gals flying these 70 seaters in UAL colors are kind of like the guy who goes to airshow with his Japanese Zero and is just a bit more proud of it than is appropriate. Yeah, it's kind of a cool plane, but....

Very good post

 

[nimtz]

Again, the regional guys didn't vote to take the flying, the legacy guys VOTED to give it away.

BFD. Hanging your hat on this tired old excuse is about as relevant as the geniuses at MSNBC that insists 100% of our economic woes are the fault of Bush. As long as your happy with that lame @ss excuse for the paltry override the 70's get over the 50's...

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

Again, the regional guys didn't vote to take the flying, the legacy guys VOTED to give it away.

OK jackhole, as F'd up as the CAL pilot group has been over the last 27 years, we sure as he11 didn't give up any 70 seat scope yet!

 

[bluefin]

Now Smisek thinks he has cart blanch!!! Hey does the injuction imposed on Ual pilots apply to CO pilots? why don't CO pilots start slowing down, If management throws a fit, throw the 50 seater issue back to them its a two way street!!

 

[bluefin]

OK jackhole, as F'd up as the CAL pilot group has been over the last 27 years, we sure as he11 didn't give up any 70 seat scope yet!

Didn't vote dic% away, it was taken with a gun to our heads, bankruptcy, the pilot contract was one hearing away from being totally thrown out, "either u give us 70 seaters or we will take it away and then some!!!" Most pilots on this board were not even in the industry when that ******************** happened!! Wasn't CO a leader in the pack petitioning the ATSB, not to give UAL the loan in 03?" Some people seem to forget that!!!

 

[Flopgut]

Didn't vote dic% away, it was taken with a gun to our heads, bankruptcy, the pilot contract was one hearing away from being totally thrown out, "either u give us 70 seaters or we will take it away and then some!!!" Most pilots on this board were not even in the industry when that ******************** happened!! Wasn't CO a leader in the pack petitioning the ATSB, not to give UAL the loan in 03?" Some people seem to forget that!!!

Bethune made quite a few remarks in that time frame that were not flattering of UAL. I promise you he doesn't regret them even a little bit. He (and many of us) remembers the "screw CAL" days. Some people forget that as well.

However, I think we all agree, that should be water under the bridge. I'm ready to fiercly defend the UAL brand and all of my coworkers. The upswing this company perhaps might take is shockingly huge. Perhaps even outstrips our ability to negotiate what would be our fair share. I think it's time to start making a case to Congress to look at our situation compared to what this company might be able to earn. With special consideration of the two loan turn downs from the ATSB, that accounted for loss of the pension and scope. Should UAL be able to make this much money in the same decade the pensions and scope were taken from emplyees?