It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

[maru657]

Yep, just an outsiders viewpoint but without some degree of perceived fairness, this will probably go to arbitration. I suspect that GK already knows that and expects it. That business model of quick upgrades and stock options has apparently outlived it's usefulness and that term "career expectations", is based on an economy that no longer exists.

 

[4day]

You just changed my vote to a big NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Why because I don't ever want to be told that " I won the lottery". SW bought AT to make money. I fly that damn things and have no control over any of it. I am very happy to have a job but to be belittle by some guy who thinks he is better for not being at AT. I draw the line. I would never disrespect a SW guy for where they came from, but if I am disrespected for the situation outside of my control then I will defend myself (not physically of course). I am glad we agree on something such as the "NOOOOOOOO" Vote as you put it. Not to smart if your vote is predicated on FI emotion and cage rattling. My vote will be based on risk mgt and my family.

 

[Sacha]

No jury, if this thing ends up in massive litigation, will rule against the side that is
asking for a fair arbitration.

Strait DOH, might be doable, with seat and base protection.

Arbitration, will most likely be closer to relative seniority.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to penalize the guys who made the choice,
and took the risk, to fly for a smaller, but faster growing airline.

"Choice"? You mean there are guys at Air Tran that chose to leave Delta,United,American or Southwest et al. in order to settle into their final career choice? Really? And they did this and expected great things with taking a little "risk"? Please.

Several years back I had one of the Air Tran Alpa guys on my jumpseat. He rode up front as the flight was full. He seemed like a great guy but was clearly at his wits end with trying to deal with Air Tran management during contract negotiations. I knew exactly how he felt because I had worked under many of the same cretins at the original Eastern after Lorenzo showed up. Correct me if Im wrong,but didn't the Air Tran guys eventually vote something like 98% to strike? To go and work for an airline like that and not know what you were getting into means that you regarded it as a stepping stone or you were clueless when you interviewed or you were Valuejet and no one else would have you. I say 90% viewed it as an improvement but not the endgame. I know. I have been there.

Having said that, I believe that no pilot should be taken advantage of based on where they were or what they were trying to achieve career wise when the music stops. The Valuejet guys well.... There are not many of them so as far as I am concerned they are fringe and there is nothing I can do about them.
The rest of us need to work this out. As I write this the Dow is down over 400 points .....again. There are tough times ahead for all of us. Let's not f,@$k up one of the few decent,profitable companies left in America.

Ignore Fubar....he is our resident "GOMER"

 

[jonjuan]

No jury, if this thing ends up in massive litigation, will rule against the side that is
asking for a fair arbitration.

Strait DOH, might be doable, with seat and base protection.

Arbitration, will most likely be closer to relative seniority.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to penalize the guys who made the choice,
and took the risk, to fly for a smaller, but faster growing airline.

Yep-identical situation those who applied at swa in the 80s/90s versus the legacies.

 

[jonjuan]

You are starting to sound like a used car salesman. Its a great deal, the deal is only available for another 5 minutes. Believe me, people are not looking at this because of the ISL. And if the protections are not ironclad this thing has no shot.

Let them get the language they agreed to in the AIP. If not it goes to arbitration.

LOL-the brady bunch episode where Greg gets hoodwinked into buying a car from his friend who claimed that he had someone coming in 10 mins to buy it.

 

[chjack]

the swa guys need to stop it with all these idle threats that GK will walk away from the deal. Bullspit! GK wants ATL, and the only way he can get it is through this aquisition.

 

[ArcadiaMaxima]

No, he has it already with the purcahse.....he can shutdown AT buy returning the a/c to the leassor and get rid of the employees...so don't say he can't without this aquisition.......he already did.

 

[NuGuy]

No, he has it already with the purcahse.....he can shutdown AT buy returning the a/c to the leassor and get rid of the employees...so don't say he can't without this aquisition.......he already did.

Sure, he could.

But he would be "salting the earth". There would be serious blow back in ATL, and no pilot group, EVER, would ever willingly have anything to do with SWA.

SWA's only growth model going forward is via aquisition. If he goes scorched earth with AAI, every future purchase will be knock down, drag out.

Nu

 

[DonVerita]

Nor should a SWA FO be penalized either. Two way street brother. Of course we have been over this before.

Tex...

I am asking this respectfully, so please respond in kind:

I get it how some SWA F/O's might be upset with having to fly with an AirTran Capt. that is junior to them. But I don't see how that holds any water considering that the AirTran Capt. is flying AirTran aircraft that came over with the combination. It's not like the AAI pilot group showed up hat in hand, in bankruptcy, and brought no aircraft to the table. They did. 140 to be exact, plus 50 options.

So if AAI pilots just flew AAI aircraft, how would that affect a SWA F/O who would never have had access to those aircraft in the first place if it were not for the merger of these two operations?

 

[SWA2000]

the swa guys need to stop it with all these idle threats that GK will walk away from the deal. Bullspit! GK wants ATL, and the only way he can get it is through this aquisition.

GK did AQUIRE AIRTRAN. I have been at SW for 11 yrs now and if there is one thing I know for sure is that SW loves a surprise. The thought process that arbitration will give Airtran a better deal or that "GK wants us with or without arbitration" is a bad mistake. I saw where one of your MEC members said that "GK wants us." It made me recall 5 yrs ago when I was in upgrade and we had "cocktails" with GK. (imagine that, having a beer with your CEO allowed to ask whatever questions you want) The question was asked "I heard we are buying Airtran?" He point blank said "no." I can't tell you how many times SW has said we are going to open "...... city" or "this base" only to do the 180 opposite. The point I am trying to make is don't think your futures are secure regardless of arbitration and that because SW said "they want us" we have nothing to lose. I hope your MEC sends this out for you guys to vote on it. Remember, ALPA has nothing to lose. They want you guys to go to
arbitration. More dues, more lawyers...etc. No fear mongering here. Just speaking from experience. Good luck to all!