It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

[Kharma Police]

As one who also has no dog in this, I'll provide a retort. Your proposal would imply that the AirTran pilot essentially gets a mulligan, a magic card to pull out and experience indoc, Day One 1993, at Southwest instead of AirTran. It's as if Doc. Brown pulled up in the DeLorean and transported you to 1993, and you are bound for Dallas instead. My only question would be, what would you give the Southwest guys? What can Doc. Brown do for you?

Since I am not in employment with either carrier, I'll take the Southwest side, since it appears that no other parvenu will. It seems that the pilots from other carriers are only captivated in what would be detrimental to the Southwest pilots the most. Very enthralling, Dr. Freud would be quite immersed in this.

¿qué?

 

[SWA/FO]

tranny season!

 

[Kharma Police]

tranny season!

¿qué?

 

[Britpilot]

"It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

"Hired, NOT Acquired"

Think a lot of yourself don't you?

Here's one for you:


WGAF

 

[Flycatcher99]

And you don't consider out of seniority upgrading 2000+ SWA F/Os something you can't exercise?

Do you mean AT FO's? Because there ain't no SWA FO's going to be upgrading anytime soon. Much less 2000. I really think you must be smoking something.

Or jailing EX-AAI guys in ATL for a decade a benefit to you?

"Jailing"? Dude, are you serious? I'm starting to think you're delusional, or you have no idea what you're talking about. AT guys are the only ones with any kind of freedom. They can stay in ATL or they can leave. They can keep their captain seats or hold better QOL as FOs. They will get huge pay raises, and now evidently, will be paid better than SWA guys with the same longevity. Oh, and they get a "me too" clause, that ensures that any benefits (stock) that SWA guys get will be afforded to them as well.

The only ones left holding the bag with nothing to show for it are SWA guys. A 9% increase in seniority with no increase in QOL (thanks to ATL fences and equipment protections), no increase in pay, and a lengthened upgrade time (all AT captains keep their seats) is hardly what I'd call a windfall.

You need to get educated. This SWA group is taking it in the shorts, with only a small paper seniority increase (that does nothing) to show for it. The AT side, and ALPA in particular, are coming across as entitled spoiled brats.

 

[ChinaClipper]

Aye carumba!

A_R_B_I_T_R_A_T_I_O_N! It worked for Frontier! And ATA! Ooopps, 0 for 2... Let EISCHEN work his magic, and THEN you can blame someone for real! Then you can get back to whining, complaining and talking smack about each other....its what pilots do!

 

[tzskipper]

It seems that the pilots from other carriers are only captivated in what would be detrimental to the Southwest pilots the most. Very enthralling, Dr. Freud would be quite immersed in this.

I guess that is one view. I think history shows that by and large for a company to continue to excel post merger, that all employees need to be treated as equals. From afar, to date that does not appear to be where this is headed.

BTW, what would be considered "detrimental" about a pilot is keeping his/her seat and base, and not giving/gaining much (in the way of percentage) on a "new" combined list from their previous position on their "old" original list? As an aside, it would be interesting to see what the ratio would be in the scenario we are talking about (3 SWA pilots to every 1 AAI pilot? Maybe more?).

No big deal. Just another perspective.

S

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Again with the name calling? Is that the best you have?



And you don't consider out of seniority upgrading 2000+ SWA F/Os something you can't exercise? Or jailing EX-AAI guys in ATL for a decade a benefit to you?

Day one of the combined SLI, the AAI guys should have the right to bid ANY base in the SWA system that their rightful seniority can hold. With a no bump/no flush provision, that would open up a position for SWA guys who want and can hold ATL an opportunity to bid there.

Under this AIP, none of that can happen. You get to upgrade first and move around the SWA system at your leisure.

And you say you can't exercise the seniority windfall you'll gain? Really? You might want to rethink that statement.



Well said. I share your opinion. Add a no bump/no flush provision and you have the fairest SLI in this case.

Fuji the most interesting thing about your statement is you made it not an AAI guy.
The fences are in place to protect the AAI pilots. They are not jailed in ATL. They can bid wherever they please. I on the other hand can't bid ATL or the 717. The fact that the AAI pilots can stay in ATL where they don't have to bid against me actually works in their favor not mine.
The simple fact is that my monthly bidding power will not change much if at all as a result of this. My upgrade date will not change much if at all as a result of this. Given those facts I just don't see this as a windfall.
Fair and equitable means I should not loose career earnings as a result of the SLI. This solution protects the AAI guys seats most of their QOL and my career earnings. Your statement seems to indicate that you favor a solution that would damage my career earnings as a result of a delayed upgrade. Unlike the AAI pilots an upgrade is the only way I get a raise. I don't think I need to rethink much here. Maybe you do.

 

[jonjuan]

Fuji the most interesting thing about your statement is you made it not an AAI guy.
The fences are in place to protect the AAI pilots. They are not jailed in ATL. They can bid wherever they please. I on the other hand can't bid ATL or the 717. The fact that the AAI pilots can stay in ATL where they don't have to bid against me actually works in their favor not mine.
The simple fact is that my monthly bidding power will not change much if at all as a result of this. My upgrade date will not change much if at all as a result of this. Given those facts I just don't see this as a windfall.
Fair and equitable means I should not loose career earnings as a result of the SLI. This solution protects the AAI guys seats most of their QOL and my career earnings. Your statement seems to indicate that you favor a solution that would damage my career earnings as a result of a delayed upgrade. Unlike the AAI pilots an upgrade is the only way I get a raise. I don't think I need to rethink much here. Maybe you do.

How do you guarantee that AAI's career earnings don't suffer from what was proposed? In other words, how do you guarantee the future say 10 years from now? Remember, 17 years into their history, SWA had lower than average career earnings. Has "career earnings" ever figured into an arbitrators decision? I really don't know.

 

[Flycatcher99]

How do you guarantee that AAI's career earnings don't suffer from what was proposed? In other words, how do you guarantee the future say 10 years from now? Remember, 17 years into their history, SWA had lower than average career earnings. Has "career earnings" ever figured into an arbitrators decision? I really don't know.

It's this kind of buffoonery that makes me think I'm in a twilight zone episode.

How about this for a guarantee: The AT guys are going from a low-paying LCC, where they were angry enough at their contract that they had a 98% strike vote, to the highest-paying carrier in the United States. Would their pay at AT in 10 or 20 years from now have been better than SWA's? Sure, I guess. Also, SWA pilots might be paid even more in the future. Or AT might have ceased to exist. Or all airlines might have merged into one glorious MegaCarrier. Or wild rabid monkeys might have invaded North America and declared martial law, along with resticting airlines income to food-stamp level.

How about looking at the freakin' simple fact: they are going from low end to very high end. Period.