It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

[Fubijaakr]

Yeah. Opinions contrary to Canyon Blue groupthink unwelcome.

 

[Sacha]

Not from Southwest or Airtran guys. Just "GOMERS" from Alaska like you.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

So you're OK with less of a seniority grab? Telling.

A "seniority grab" would imply that I would get something that I can exercise. Because of the protections afforded to the AAI group in this AIP most of what I have gained on paper will not translate into my monthly bidding power. The only AAI pilots that will end up having to bid against the SWA pilots are the 737 guys displaced out of ATL. All the 717 guys and all the ATL guys will only be bidding against other AAI pilots. The only thing my "seniority gain" does is protect my upgrade date and career earnings. This is not an easy problem with an easy answer. I don't expect a gain off of the AAI pilots but I do expect to not loose either.

 

[tzskipper]

All before my time- and I feel for your position. It's a good reminder on humility- honestly.

You might have an interesting perspective though- what do you think of the SLI w/ AT, if you care?

Thanks Wave.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but from reading and speaking to LUV friends, here goes: The SLI effort appears to be akin to a pork barrel bill going through congress... Everyone wants what is best for them individually, not necessarily for the group, so amendments and demands get added. Nothing good will come of it.

Maybe it is time for both sides to take a step back, pull out a clean sheet of paper and start over (I am still not sure what is wrong with putting the most senior AT pilot next to a SWA pilot with the same DOH, and then ratio down from there... but that is just an opinion...). How this turns out (another opinion), may very likely make or break SWA in the long run.

Good luck to you. This career is difficult enough without the added stress of things you cannot completely control.

Be safe and have a good weekend.

S

 

[dashocho]

Guys, here is how it's gonna play out. I want better seniority. Airtran guys would like better seniority. At the end of the day neither of us is gonna be happy with the outcome. When it's all said and done I will not hold any personal grudges no matter what happens. We all want what is best for us(me), but we chose to become airline pilots. The key word is CHOSE. No one help a gun to our heads, no one made us do it. We all want is best for "me." It's just not gonna happen. No matter what happens, when the game is over we will be on the same in the end. If you don't like what's about to happen, quit whining and just get out. It's pretty simple. SWA or AT didn't make you you chose your destiny, you did, get over it. Do what's best for you till the axe falls and then buck up!!!!!

Ignore the idiots who just want to jab cause they aren't happy in their own lives and just want to feel better for one minute when someone gives them attention on an internet website.

 

[SWA/FO]

Blah blah blah..... its tranny season!

 

[U2DRVR]

Duck season!

 

[Fubijaakr]

Not from Southwest or Airtran guys. Just "GOMERS" from Alaska like you.

Again with the name calling? Is that the best you have?

A "seniority grab" would imply that I would get something that I can exercise..

And you don't consider out of seniority upgrading 2000+ SWA F/Os something you can't exercise? Or jailing EX-AAI guys in ATL for a decade a benefit to you?

Day one of the combined SLI, the AAI guys should have the right to bid ANY base in the SWA system that their rightful seniority can hold. With a no bump/no flush provision, that would open up a position for SWA guys who want and can hold ATL an opportunity to bid there.

Under this AIP, none of that can happen. You get to upgrade first and move around the SWA system at your leisure.

And you say you can't exercise the seniority windfall you'll gain? Really? You might want to rethink that statement.

The SLI effort appears to be akin to a pork barrel bill going through congress... Everyone wants what is best for them individually, not necessarily for the group, so amendments and demands get added. Nothing good will come of it.

Maybe it is time for both sides to take a step back, pull out a clean sheet of paper and start over (I am still not sure what is wrong with putting the most senior AT pilot next to a SWA pilot with the same DOH, and then ratio down from there... but that is just an opinion...).

Well said. I share your opinion. Add a no bump/no flush provision and you have the fairest SLI in this case.

 

[tzskipper]

Well said. I share your opinion. Add a no bump/no flush provision and you have the fairest SLI in this case.

Agreed.

S

 

[Dennis Miller]

I am still not sure what is wrong with putting the most senior AT pilot next to a SWA pilot with the same DOH, and then ratio down from there... but that is just an opinion..

S

As one who also has no dog in this, I'll provide a retort. Your proposal would imply that the AirTran pilot essentially gets a mulligan, a magic card to pull out and experience indoc, Day One 1993, at Southwest instead of AirTran. It's as if Doc. Brown pulled up in the DeLorean and transported you to 1993, and you are bound for Dallas instead. My only question would be, what would you give the Southwest guys? What can Doc. Brown do for you?

Since I am not in employment with either carrier, I'll take the Southwest side, since it appears that no other parvenu will. It seems that the pilots from other carriers are only captivated in what would be detrimental to the Southwest pilots the most. Very enthralling, Dr. Freud would be quite immersed in this.

 

[Kharma Police]

As one who also has no dog in this, I'll provide a retort. Your proposal would imply that the AirTran pilot essentially gets a mulligan, a magic card to pull out and experience indoc, Day One 1993, at Southwest instead of AirTran. It's as if Doc. Brown pulled up in the DeLorean and transported you to 1993, and you are bound for Dallas instead. My only question would be, what would you give the Southwest guys? What can Doc. Brown do for you?

Since I am not in employment with either carrier, I'll take the Southwest side, since it appears that no other parvenu will. It seems that the pilots from other carriers are only captivated in what would be detrimental to the Southwest pilots the most. Very enthralling, Dr. Freud would be quite immersed in this.

¿qué?

 

[SWA/FO]

tranny season!

 

[Kharma Police]

tranny season!

¿qué?

 

[Britpilot]

"It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

"Hired, NOT Acquired"

Think a lot of yourself don't you?

Here's one for you:


WGAF

 

[Flycatcher99]

And you don't consider out of seniority upgrading 2000+ SWA F/Os something you can't exercise?

Do you mean AT FO's? Because there ain't no SWA FO's going to be upgrading anytime soon. Much less 2000. I really think you must be smoking something.

Or jailing EX-AAI guys in ATL for a decade a benefit to you?

"Jailing"? Dude, are you serious? I'm starting to think you're delusional, or you have no idea what you're talking about. AT guys are the only ones with any kind of freedom. They can stay in ATL or they can leave. They can keep their captain seats or hold better QOL as FOs. They will get huge pay raises, and now evidently, will be paid better than SWA guys with the same longevity. Oh, and they get a "me too" clause, that ensures that any benefits (stock) that SWA guys get will be afforded to them as well.

The only ones left holding the bag with nothing to show for it are SWA guys. A 9% increase in seniority with no increase in QOL (thanks to ATL fences and equipment protections), no increase in pay, and a lengthened upgrade time (all AT captains keep their seats) is hardly what I'd call a windfall.

You need to get educated. This SWA group is taking it in the shorts, with only a small paper seniority increase (that does nothing) to show for it. The AT side, and ALPA in particular, are coming across as entitled spoiled brats.