It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

[Empennage]

GK did AQUIRE AIRTRAN. I have been at SW for 11 yrs now and if there is one thing I know for sure is that SW loves a surprise. The thought process that arbitration will give Airtran a better deal or that "GK wants us with or without arbitration" is a bad mistake. I saw where one of your MEC members said that "GK wants us." It made me recall 5 yrs ago when I was in upgrade and we had "cocktails" with GK. (imagine that, having a beer with your CEO allowed to ask whatever questions you want) The question was asked "I heard we are buying Airtran?" He point blank said "no." I can't tell you how many times SW has said we are going to open "...... city" or "this base" only to do the 180 opposite. The point I am trying to make is don't think your futures are secure regardless of arbitration and that because SW said "they want us" we have nothing to lose. I hope your MEC sends this out for you guys to vote on it. Remember, ALPA has nothing to lose. They want you guys to go to
arbitration. More dues, more lawyers...etc. No fear mongering here. Just speaking from experience. Good luck to all!

I thought it was just Swa fos posting?

 

[GoodTimes]

Are we about to watch history repeat itself? We pilots have always been our own worst enemy.

 

[Ty Webb]

Tex...

I am asking this respectfully, so please respond in kind:

I get it how some SWA F/O's might be upset with having to fly with an AirTran Capt. that is junior to them. But I don't see how that holds any water considering that the AirTran Capt. is flying AirTran aircraft that came over with the combination. It's not like the AAI pilot group showed up hat in hand, in bankruptcy, and brought no aircraft to the table. They did. 140 to be exact, plus 50 options.

So if AAI pilots just flew AAI aircraft, how would that affect a SWA F/O who would never have had access to those aircraft in the first place if it were not for the merger of these two operations?

Btw, once the SWA FO's start upgrading around our senior FO's, shouldn't our FO's get override pay for flying with junior SWA FO's? Same principle.

 

[DonVerita]

Btw, once the SWA FO's start upgrading around our senior FO's, shouldn't our FO's get override pay for flying with junior SWA FO's? Same principle.

Good point!

 

[tab flyer]

The thought process that arbitration will give Airtran a better deal or that "GK wants us with or without arbitration" is a bad mistake. I saw where one of your MEC members said that "GK wants us." It made me recall 5 yrs ago when I was in upgrade and we had "cocktails" with GK. (imagine that, having a beer with your CEO allowed to ask whatever questions you want) all!

Did the same thing at Delta when I upgraded. Gee Imagine that!!! You guys are a bunch of BHeads.

 

[texman]

Tex...

I am asking this respectfully, so please respond in kind:

I get it how some SWA F/O's might be upset with having to fly with an AirTran Capt. that is junior to them. But I don't see how that holds any water considering that the AirTran Capt. is flying AirTran aircraft that came over with the combination. It's not like the AAI pilot group showed up hat in hand, in bankruptcy, and brought no aircraft to the table. They did. 140 to be exact, plus 50 options.

So if AAI pilots just flew AAI aircraft, how would that affect a SWA F/O who would never have had access to those aircraft in the first place if it were not for the merger of these two operations?

No worries. I don't think it so much the FO flying with the AT Capt, it is the money lost. I know there are 815 slots that AT has brought. Thats fine in my opinion only. I think what us SWA guy's have to see is this is a two fleet deal now. So us seen the seniority bump right away is not going to happen. This is fine too in only my opinion ( I am thinking long term for me my family and the health of the company). I think some guy's are pissed about the 70+ upgrades that have happen over the course of the year.

So with this AIP 9 what you have at SWA is a document that needs to be shown in detail. Meaning road shows and more educational pieces. There are 400 FO's out of 3,000 that are pissed, and I can see why. A lot of them are former Mil and started the 121 thing after 20 years in the service, or tenth airline scenario. So if you where 45-55 years of age and it was going to take 5 more years to upgrade well then you can see why they are pissed. All the SWA capts are asking the FO's how they should vote. Some say vote yes some say vote no. Well this is going to depend on your age, where you sit on the list and how much time you have till 65.

I see it passing by 65-72%, the pilot group here has a success sharing mentality. A lot of us see the big picture. The question of the day is, DOES ALPA?

 

[texman]

Btw, once the SWA FO's start upgrading around our senior FO's, shouldn't our FO's get override pay for flying with junior SWA FO's? Same principle.

LOL! You have a point, but only at 2010 AT capt pay rates.LOL! Oh wait they get that just being a SWA FO!LOL!

 

[madjack]

AAI pilots: 1.4 bill in financial gain
SWA pilots: 188 mill financial gain

AAI CPS seat protected till 2020 at SWA Pay rates
AAI FOs longevity and swa pay rates

SWA CPs: seniority gain
SWA FOs: seniority gain (delayed for many due to AIP C and Rs)

1.4BILL vs 188Mill

ATL fence until 2020

Why can't the SWA pilots share in the gain that the AAI pilots are getting? The AIP appears to address this disparity...

 

[dicko]

Did the same thing at Delta when I upgraded. Gee Imagine that!!! You guys are a bunch of BHeads.

Did the same thing at AirTran when I upgraded.

It's hilarious that these guys think they invented half of this stuff. Yet they taxi around on two engines as a matter of policy. Complaining about the price of gas.

 

[jball2]

Believe me when I tell you, we have been complaining to mgmt for years about the two eng taxi stuff. You should hear the excuses.