Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
tzskipper said:
From which ATA exited with JD at the helm, and then promptly began pulling out of the MDW markets, legitimizing a transaction allowing for SWA to acquire gate leases that ATA held. The airline had no chance of survival. As a reward (imo), JD got a nice seat on the LUV BOD.

"Slick"? That hurts.

I know business is business, but how about showing a little humility for the fact that much of SWA's growth (pilot advancement/upgrades)in MDW during this period came at the expense of many ATA pilots? Btw, the final transaction was LUV buying ATA in the last bankruptcy, just for the LGA slots.

I don't know. Maybe it really was a bad dream.

S
Click to expand...

All before my time- and I feel for your position. It's a good reminder on humility- honestly.

You might have an interesting perspective though- what do you think of the SLI w/ AT, if you care?
 
Someone explain this super secret just made public super "A" scale pay which surpasses our FO pay?

You ALPA guys are doing a great job at this.
 
scoreboardII said:
Don, I'm not saying AAI didn't bring anything to the table, just that the pilots are only bringing themselves. The CBA of AT is a liability for SWAPA, not a bad thing, yet a liability which must be dealt with in any case.

Has harm come to swapa pilots? Yes. Biggest being a thing we call culture, hard to describe to those on the outside, I'll just leave it to say we don't want to see our culture destroyed by the shenanigans of an outside suitor. We believe in starting at the bottom and working your way up. Not as punishment nor a haze, but as training in the art of our spirit, you learn by doing, not by reading a book, again, something hard for outsiders to understand so the first thing they usually do is throw out terms like "elitist".

You mention aircraft numbers; again, AT pilots bring zero aircraft, those belonged to AT, bought by SWA, from monies earned by SWA pilots. AT pilots bring a liability of industry arbitrations showing seat locks, counter to reasonable seniority awards. This would be "a harm" against those SWA FO's who are senior to an AT pilot who gets to keep his seat, get our pay which we spent negotiating capital on, and gets it for life.

Do you not agree SWA pilots sacrificed a minimum three years of no growth/zero upgrades so cash could be accumulated for the eventual buyout of AAI? That money could have purchased SWA jets, not AT jets.

You mention the hypothetical DAL takeover of SWA, given SWA's track record, it's more likely the other way around. We have cash on hand to buy AA outright, but aren't that stupid.

I'll finish and say I see your point, but my point makes more sense, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...


You make some good points, and I agree with much of what you say. However At pilots did bring something to the dance, we bring a company built from nothing with suffering and sacrifice (abusive management, numerous contract violations, furloughes etc...). A company with assets valuable enough to your CEO that he risked his legacy and future to buy it. SWA is the greatest airline on the planet, but honestly you could not organically get what AT offered (plus eliminate your toughest competitor). We will acknowledge your sacrifices if you respect and see ours. If you get the credit for creating the $$$ to buy AT, we get the credit for building the company that is a key part to the future success of SWA. Fair enough?
 
Kharma Police said:
What I find intriguing is that you guys respond to them.............
Click to expand...

I don't respond to them. It would just shorten these threads if I didn't have to scroll by the Three Stooges and the Alaskan Midget. They are the same morons from another airline who interject their thoughts on the Hotel Van, when it is a conversation that doesn't include them.
 
Yeah. Opinions contrary to Canyon Blue groupthink unwelcome.
 
jonjuan said:
So you're OK with less of a seniority grab? Telling.
Click to expand...


A "seniority grab" would imply that I would get something that I can exercise. Because of the protections afforded to the AAI group in this AIP most of what I have gained on paper will not translate into my monthly bidding power. The only AAI pilots that will end up having to bid against the SWA pilots are the 737 guys displaced out of ATL. All the 717 guys and all the ATL guys will only be bidding against other AAI pilots. The only thing my "seniority gain" does is protect my upgrade date and career earnings. This is not an easy problem with an easy answer. I don't expect a gain off of the AAI pilots but I do expect to not loose either.
 
Last edited:
waveflyer said:
All before my time- and I feel for your position. It's a good reminder on humility- honestly.

You might have an interesting perspective though- what do you think of the SLI w/ AT, if you care?
Click to expand...

Thanks Wave.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but from reading and speaking to LUV friends, here goes: The SLI effort appears to be akin to a pork barrel bill going through congress... Everyone wants what is best for them individually, not necessarily for the group, so amendments and demands get added. Nothing good will come of it.

Maybe it is time for both sides to take a step back, pull out a clean sheet of paper and start over (I am still not sure what is wrong with putting the most senior AT pilot next to a SWA pilot with the same DOH, and then ratio down from there... but that is just an opinion...). How this turns out (another opinion), may very likely make or break SWA in the long run.

Good luck to you. This career is difficult enough without the added stress of things you cannot completely control.

Be safe and have a good weekend.

S
 
Guys, here is how it's gonna play out. I want better seniority. Airtran guys would like better seniority. At the end of the day neither of us is gonna be happy with the outcome. When it's all said and done I will not hold any personal grudges no matter what happens. We all want what is best for us(me), but we chose to become airline pilots. The key word is CHOSE. No one help a gun to our heads, no one made us do it. We all want is best for "me." It's just not gonna happen. No matter what happens, when the game is over we will be on the same in the end. If you don't like what's about to happen, quit whining and just get out. It's pretty simple. SWA or AT didn't make you you chose your destiny, you did, get over it. Do what's best for you till the axe falls and then buck up!!!!!

Ignore the idiots who just want to jab cause they aren't happy in their own lives and just want to feel better for one minute when someone gives them attention on an internet website.
 
Blah blah blah..... its tranny season!
 
Sacha said:
Not from Southwest or Airtran guys. Just "GOMERS" from Alaska like you.
Click to expand...

Again with the name calling? Is that the best you have?

GhettoBeechjet said:
A "seniority grab" would imply that I would get something that I can exercise..
Click to expand...

And you don't consider out of seniority upgrading 2000+ SWA F/Os something you can't exercise? Or jailing EX-AAI guys in ATL for a decade a benefit to you?

Day one of the combined SLI, the AAI guys should have the right to bid ANY base in the SWA system that their rightful seniority can hold. With a no bump/no flush provision, that would open up a position for SWA guys who want and can hold ATL an opportunity to bid there.

Under this AIP, none of that can happen. You get to upgrade first and move around the SWA system at your leisure.

And you say you can't exercise the seniority windfall you'll gain? Really? You might want to rethink that statement.

tzskipper said:
The SLI effort appears to be akin to a pork barrel bill going through congress... Everyone wants what is best for them individually, not necessarily for the group, so amendments and demands get added. Nothing good will come of it.

Maybe it is time for both sides to take a step back, pull out a clean sheet of paper and start over (I am still not sure what is wrong with putting the most senior AT pilot next to a SWA pilot with the same DOH, and then ratio down from there... but that is just an opinion...).
Click to expand...

Well said. I share your opinion. Add a no bump/no flush provision and you have the fairest SLI in this case.
 
Last edited:
tzskipper said:
I am still not sure what is wrong with putting the most senior AT pilot next to a SWA pilot with the same DOH, and then ratio down from there... but that is just an opinion..

S
Click to expand...

As one who also has no dog in this, I'll provide a retort. Your proposal would imply that the AirTran pilot essentially gets a mulligan, a magic card to pull out and experience indoc, Day One 1993, at Southwest instead of AirTran. It's as if Doc. Brown pulled up in the DeLorean and transported you to 1993, and you are bound for Dallas instead. My only question would be, what would you give the Southwest guys? What can Doc. Brown do for you?

Since I am not in employment with either carrier, I'll take the Southwest side, since it appears that no other parvenu will. It seems that the pilots from other carriers are only captivated in what would be detrimental to the Southwest pilots the most. Very enthralling, Dr. Freud would be quite immersed in this.
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top