It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

[Ty Webb]

Don, your where civil so shall I: Airtran aircraft became SWA aircraft on date of corporate closing. Right now, AT pilots are flying SWA jets. SWA jets bought off the backs of SWA pilot labor which banked the cash to make this deal happen.

Ok, it's clear there is no intelligent conversation to be had here. See ya.

 

[scoreboardII]

not as long as you keep making one line personal attacks, not suprising

 

[LearLove]

check this out - this AT guy actually likes the deal - says Vote YES - and he looks junior

Can't believe it....

http://tinyurl.com/airtranyesvote

 

[DonVerita]

Don, your where civil so shall I: Airtran aircraft became SWA aircraft on date of corporate closing. Right now, AT pilots are flying SWA jets. SWA jets bought off the backs of SWA pilot labor which banked the cash to make this deal happen.

The AT pilots brought nothing to the deal except a liabilty caused by law to be fair and equitable.

SWA pilots however bring our contract which AT pilots want, not the other way around. Please keep to the facts when discussing whats really happening, thanks.

Score...thanks for keeping it civil.

What you are failing to mention in your ownership opinion is this:

When SWA the Company entered into the agreement to bring AAI into the fold ("acquired" as some of your guys like to say), they also accepted/inherited the AirTran CBA in its entirety including all of the scope provisions contained therein. It is those scope protections that protect a pilot group and their years of seniority and longevity. What if the new mega carrier known as Delta/Northwest decided to acquire SWA? Would you not expect your years of service to SWA to be protected just like we at AAI do? Would you not expect a fair and equitable SLI that results in you being viewed as a peer amongst your new fellow pilots rather than a 2nd class citizen?

So you view fair and equitable as a..."liability"?

To say AAI brought "nothing to the deal" is preposterous. It smacks of elitism.

Some would say that what AAI brings to the table is for the benefit of SWA the Company, not SWAPA the pilot group and therefore SWAPA the pilot group gains nothing, but A-ALPA the pilot group gains substantially. Monetarily...yes. But that is between SWA the Company and A-ALPA. Those gains are for doing the exact same job as a SWAPA pilot. Should an AAI pilot have to give up 32% seniority for doing the same job as a SWAPA pilot?

Has any Harm come to a SWAPA pilot in this AIP? What does a SWAPA pilot gain? How about the critcal mass that comes with the overnight addition of 140 aircraft to the combined fleet along with the 50 options, the latter of which equals growth, the former of which ensures that the new combined company has the mass and muscle to hold their own against the new behemoths of the industry: the aforementioned DAL/NWA, the new UAL/CAL, and possibly a 3rd titan in the form of AMR/???.

So, yes...let's please keep to the facts when discussing what's really happening, thanks.

 

[jonjuan]

Don, your where civil so shall I: Airtran aircraft became SWA aircraft on date of corporate closing. Right now, AT pilots are flying SWA jets. SWA jets bought off the backs of SWA pilot labor which banked the cash to make this deal happen.

LOL-this place is funnier than the John Stewart Show-and only for $10 beans.
How about this: SWA got a screaming deal off the backs of pilots who worked way harder and were paid way less. Time to have ALPA take it back.

 

[Ty Webb]

check this out - this AT guy actually likes the deal - says Vote YES - and he looks junior

Can't believe it....

http://tinyurl.com/airtranyesvote

:laugh: Classic 1990's rickroll . . . . . . . . Well played. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[redflyer65]

Score...thanks for keeping it civil.

What you are failing to mention in your ownership opinion is this:

When SWA the Company entered into the agreement to bring AAI into the fold ("acquired" as some of your guys like to say), they also accepted/inherited the AirTran CBA in its entirety including all of the scope provisions contained therein. It is those scope protections that protect a pilot group and their years of seniority and longevity. What if the new mega carrier known as Delta/Northwest decided to acquire SWA? Would you not expect your years of service to SWA to be protected just like we at AAI do? Would you not expect a fair and equitable SLI that results in you being viewed as a peer amongst your new fellow pilots rather than a 2nd class citizen?

So you view fair and equitable as a..."liability"?

To say AAI brought "nothing to the deal" is preposterous. It smacks of elitism.

Some would say that what AAI brings to the table is for the benefit of SWA the Company, not SWAPA the pilot group and therefore SWAPA the pilot group gains nothing, but A-ALPA the pilot group gains substantially. Monetarily...yes. But that is between SWA the Company and A-ALPA. Those gains are for doing the exact same job as a SWAPA pilot. Should an AAI pilot have to give up 32% seniority for doing the same job as a SWAPA pilot?

Has any Harm come to a SWAPA pilot in this AIP? What does a SWAPA pilot gain? How about the critcal mass that comes with the overnight addition of 140 aircraft to the combined fleet along with the 50 options, the latter of which equals growth, the former of which ensures that the new combined company has the mass and muscle to hold their own against the new behemoths of the industry: the aforementioned DAL/NWA, the new UAL/CAL, and possibly a 3rd titan in the form of AMR/???.

So, yes...let's please keep to the facts when discussing what's really happening, thanks.

Your almost right Don. The AAI CBA brings nothing to the SW pilots, but for some reason the AAI pilots would love to be under the SWAPA contract.

The check says Southwest Airlines, but the CBA was acquired over years of hard work from SWAPA.

AAI corporate brought the planes and the gates...that is a corporate business deal only..has nothing to do with the CBA's or the pilot groups.

If you are trying to justify this as a merger of equals like NW/DL, I would say you aren't even in the same ballpark. The exact reason people from AAI would try sooo hard to get hired at SW...just like we all did.

RF

 

[dicko]

a liabilty caused by law to be fair and equitable.

Nice world view. Although it does sum up SWAPA's moral stance pretty well.

Maybe you should put that quote in SWAPA's charter. If you're looking for some examples to help with the perfect wording, I'd head straight for The Klan or maybe Darth Vaders personal poetry collection.

.

 

[kwick]

Don, your where civil so shall I: Airtran aircraft became SWA aircraft on date of corporate closing. Right now, AT pilots are flying SWA jets. SWA jets bought off the backs of SWA pilot labor which banked the cash to make this deal happen.

The AT pilots brought nothing to the deal except a liabilty caused by law to be fair and equitable.

SWA pilots however bring our contract which AT pilots want, not the other way around. Please keep to the facts when discussing whats really happening, thanks.

If AT brings nothing to the table, you better call GK and ask him
why he would spend good money to buy them.

What was SW's pay, after 15 or so years of existence. About the
same as AT, and probably less compared to the rates of other airlines at that time.

 

[redflyer65]

If AT brings nothing to the table, you better call GK and ask him
why he would spend good money to buy them.

What was SW's pay, after 15 or so years of existence. About the
same as AT, and probably less compared to the rates of other airlines at that time.

Both of your arguements make no sense. Gary bought out a competitor with minimal outlay, and picked up ATL, DCA, and more LGA slots in the meantime. Things that happen when one coporation buys another...they get the stuff. This has absolutely nothing to do with the labor, on either side.

I'm glad in your second statement you agree to the huge pay dispairity between AAI and SW...NOW. This has nothing to do with a history lesson, but more to do with contract differences on Sept. 27th. Like night and day.