It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

[MCDU]

So much short term thinking here- the problem is the AT group is much younger and if placed senior will ALWAYS be senior- for getting on earlier at an easier carrier to get on with- sorry but the years longer it takes to get the higher paying, more stable, competitive job should be rewarded. Their FOs don't deserve being slotted in front of CJ FOR BEING BOUGHT.
Getting bought was the risk you took getting on and staying with a lower paying, younger, carrier- it happened-
You guys should all just be glad American didn't buy you. Think we're cocky- any of the legacies buy you and they'd take it all the way to staple and would force it on you. The ONLY reason they're taking up for you now is bc they hate on southwest- that's it.

Hey fubi- you're an over emotional troll, but I love that avatar!

Good day fellas- off to play with the hottest girl....
We all get one vote- don't ruin your day over it-

You are a Hypocrite.

M

 

[waveflyer]

Am I now?
Esplain senior-

Still waiting on OYS to define "better future"

 

[General Lee]

So it is your position that the "fair" solution is that the AAI f/os should receive the full benefit of the SWA retirements? That pushes a lot of SWA junior f/os upgrade dates past their retirement dates. I get it now. The AAI captains keep their seats and they get our retirements. It's really all about them because we had no career expectations.

The NWA pilots argued the same point to the 3 arbitrators during the SLI, that their side had a lot more retirements coming up than the DL side, and that they should be given credit for that in the SLI. The arbitrators decided that wasn't important. You probably would lose that argument in arbitration, and that might be another reason your group doesn't want to go there.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

No, but would it have really hurt to have tossed our senior F/O's a bone and let us keep our own attrition, our own upgrades from the aircraft that are delivered in addition to yours, and any deliberate AAI CA downgrades for QoL?

That still results in no earlier movement for you to the CA seat, according to what you posted earlier, correct? So what would it have hurt to let each side keep their own movement independent of their position on the ISL?

Yes, that was proposed. It was also shot down.

All the terms and conditions would keep our crews segregated for a decade, fighting for interpretations, and aggravated for years to come. I *WANT* a negotiated solution, but I'm wondering if an arbitrated one with no one to be angry at except the arbitrator would be a better way to go...

I think I have been stating that all along. Everyone, including GK, can point a finger at someone else, and you don't have to be mad at the guy next to you. It is the way of the future, letting someone on the outside decide what is and isn't fair.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Hey lear, I guess you want all your growth and seniority, that you had at AAI but you also want SWA pay? Riddle me that? Why dont I just give you my SWA ID now and roll over like a dumbass border collie!

Are you giving up any pay for this deal? Are you gaining any pay? The DL pilots didn't get a huge pay raise for the merger, only about 5% and some stock (up to 3600 shares each), along with a 17% payraise over 4 years and some work rule changes. If you are not getting anything other than the Airtran pilots' seats and all future growth, (which really isn't fair), then maybe you should ask your own management for a small pay raise and some stock.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Lear I never said I wanted your growth. Quite frankly as a combined company we will have none for a very long time as they optimize the assets they have. Gary's demand for a 15 percent ROIC is not reachable in the current climate thus no growth. I honestly don't think that there would have been much if any growth at AAI either without this aquisition given the competive landscape and AAIs corp debt but I can't prove that any more than you can prove that there would have been.
What I did say I wanted was our retirements. I think what retirements you have would have been offset by the fact that the AAI side is overstaffed by the SWA models. Add that to the upgrades that snuck in after September I'm sure whatever gain I might get on paper would be wiped out. SWA has been GROSSLY short on captains all summer. The word on the street is that they held off any further upgrades in order to assume some of the overstaffing of captains on the AAI side.
General I hate to say this but I have to agree with you. I think the AAI MEC will smack this thing down in the open meeting on Thurs. If they don't they will most likely be lynched by the angry mob in attendance. If they don't vote it down and they survive it will just be a tactic to buy time and try and get SWAPA to tip our hand before the AAI mebership votes it down. Alpa will use what they learn in our roadshows against us in the inevitable arbitration. WHEN we go to arbitration there is a likelyhood that the arbitrator come up with a solution that will cost me my upgrade and thus about a half million or so in career earnings. That upgrade based on SWA retirements and the money that goes along with it will go to an AAI guy who is already getting a heck of a boost in career earnings. I don't think its fair or equitable but it seems to be how the ball normally bounces in these things. I'm trying to get over it now so I'm not a miserable bitter dickhead for the rest of my career. I started this process with the assumption that this is how it would end. I was for awhile naive enough to believe it might end some other way but I realize now I was right at first.


See you on the other side of the Arbi
Ghetto