It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

[kwick]

A_R_B_I_T_R_A_T_I_O_N! It worked for Frontier! And ATA! Ooopps, 0 for 2... Let EISCHEN work his magic, and THEN you can blame someone for real! Then you can get back to whining, complaining and talking smack about each other....its what pilots do!

You need to do a little research before you
post such nonsense.

Neither Ata or Frontier went to arbitation.

Airtran pilots would be foolish to follow
In their footsteps, and trust any deal with
SW without a fairly arbitrated agreement.

People that do not know history are often
bound to repeat it.

 

[Red Baron]

This thread is like a broken record.

 

[Tripower455]

Music,

This thing sucks for both sides. It's all about perspective.

Exactly... The definition of a perfect SLI is that everyone on both sides is ticked.

Everyone hates this one, on both sides, so, it appears that we have the perfect SLI solution right before our eyes!

 

[Music]

WE CAN'T GIVE UP OUR SEAT!!! If we do we have to wait for all SWA fos to upgrade before we can bid the left seat again. EVEN IF THEY ARE JUNIOR TO US!! If I could get the left seat when my seniority would hold it again then I would give it up for awhile. I don't have a choice because of the way the language is written.

I understand of course, but reality (at least for us on the 73) will most likely result in the Junior 73 captains bouncing around the SW system with no seniority, flexing between CA and FO. That will get old. Maybe not for some, by likely for many. As a result, my ability to maintain any QOL will diminish until I (again me) will have to decide whether to give up my seat. I don't know if I will or won't, it's in the future if this agreement is ratified. What I do know, is as of right now, I don't want to risk it with my family. Again ME.

 

[humveedriver]

I understand of course, but reality (at least for us on the 73) will most likely result in the Junior 73 captains bouncing around the SW system with no seniority, flexing between CA and FO. That will get old. Maybe not for some, by likely for many. As a result, my ability to maintain any QOL will diminish until I (again me) will have to decide whether to give up my seat. I don't know if I will or won't, it's in the future if this agreement is ratified. What I do know, is as of right now, I don't want to risk it with my family. Again ME.

I'm sitting at the same seniority as Music. And I came to the exact same conclusion, when looking soley at how this AIP will effect ME. This offer to keep our seats is much different than upgrading due to attrition or growth. It guarantees that you will be on reserve and quite possibly without a domicile for the better part of 9 years. Thats different than a regular upgrade experience. Yes, in theory no AT CPT should volunteer to give up their seat because it can't be filled by another AT FO and will take a decade to get back at least. But it will happen. We will have pilots that live in DAL/HOU/MDW/BWI/MCO/PHX for certain that will decide that driving to their trip for the first time in their careers, outweighs that seat. I suspect most will bank the extra cash, pay off debt and then take the downgrade. This will cause a ripple effect until finally it hits a seniority level that wont give up the seat or is ATL based. I for one support a strict DOH with no protections and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[waveflyer]

I don't hate at all, just refuting his statement that AAI is a low paying LCC.
In fact, next to WN, it is about the highest paying one, paying more than half the legacys. I posted the rates from APC to support my statement.

Generally ridiculous? I merely refuted an very inaccurate statement he made. There seems to be a misconception at WN that the pay at AAI is substandard. While not on parity with Southwest, it above all other LCC's, and half of the legacy's. I'm thrilled your FO's have such a high rate of pay.
To answer your next statement, approx 2/3's of AAI CA's are above a 10 yr pay scale which is better than 150/hr.

Straight date of hire increases my seniority by over 4 years. If it means I lose my seat and the ATL base, so be it. I'll even leave you the keys to my airport car.

A 32 % loss of seniority is a bitter pill to swallow. Would you vote yes for something like that?

There's that math deficient 32% again.... For the 100th time- Under DOH, what would your % loss of seniority be?

And again- what were your rates at the snapshot? They are the only one's that count in this.

I can't speak for you. I turned down AT back in 2005 for better options- you guys were getting beat down, fighting for a semi-par contract-

I personally believe in SWA. That's why I applied and didn't stop til I got the job. So yes- in your situation- you'd be an idiot not to thank god every day for this agreement- and the opportunity to fly at swa.

You got bought. We're weaker in every sense of the word- youre getting huge money- yeah- I think "bitter pill" is a bullish/t comment when I've got a whole lot of friends striving to be new hires.

Again-
Since you avoided the one question that matters- and I am challenging you: Name one real thing that a Swapa pilot is getting out of this deal, that AT pilots aren't getting in spades.
No signing bonus, no stock, no raises, no bump up in longevity pay- Please- name 1 thing

 

[Kharma Police]

There's that math deficient 32% again.... For the 100th time- Under DOH, what would your % loss of seniority be?

And again- what were your rates at the snapshot? They are the only one's that count in this.

I can't speak for you. I turned down AT back in 2005 for better options- you guys were getting beat down, fighting for a semi-par contract-
I personally believe in SWA. That's why I applied and didn't stop til I got the job. So yes- in your situation- you'd be an idiot not to thank god every day for this agreement- and the opportunity to fly at swa.

You got bought. We're weaker in every sense of the word- youre getting huge money- yeah- I think "bitter pill" is a bullish/t comment when I've got a whole lot of friends striving to be new hires.

Again-
Since you avoided the one question that letters- and I am challenging you: Name one real thing that a Swapa pilot is getting out of this deal, that AT pilots aren't getting in spades.
No signing bonus, no stock, no raises, no bump up in longevity pay- Please- name 1 thing

Well, you get to be my FO, which will be FANTASTIC for you (and me)!!!!!

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I love the term fair and neutral arbitration. Anybody read about how screwed up Arbitration is and how it is being used by companies to limit their liability to consumers. Ask some of your coworkers how their arbitration hearings went and how black and white issues were ruled completely against logic. Who is paying the arbitrators. Who do the arbitrators want to get work from again in the future. The arbitration ruling does not have to be based on any past practice or any set precedent. Be careful what you wish for with a "neutral" arbitrator.

 

[waveflyer]

Hey man, it's only bad for you if you don't like women and vodka!
This is not an ego thing- I've flown Left seat, more than the right- what matters to me is coming to work and enjoying my job.


Humvee- where on earth do you think you deserve a DOH integration with the company that bought you. You get your longevity for pay- but me and our FOs shouldn't be punished for taking the extra time it took to get the swa job- that's a fact you guys like to ignore- but it's relevant in seniority- pilots left AT for us- those that didn't took years longer getting on with swa than AT-

So lay it all out- our sides been clear-

Do you as AT pilots feel this is a "merger of equals"

We're all equal to god- I've already said I'll never fly with better pilots than in my 1900, it's not a skill thing-

It IS about one job being a better more time consuming job to get.

Should we not be rewarded for that effort?

 

[Music]

I love the term fair and neutral arbitration. Anybody read about how screwed up Arbitration is and how it is being used by companies to limit their liability to consumers. Ask some of your coworkers how their arbitration hearings went and how black and white issues were ruled completely against logic. Who is paying the arbitrators. Who do the arbitrators want to get work from again in the future. The arbitration ruling does not have to be based on any past practice or any set precedent. Be careful what you wish for with a "neutral" arbitrator.

This is exactly why my decision to vote no was difficult to arrive at, I have no idea what will happen in Arby. My hope is that after it's all said and done (via the process agreement) the final result will be better for my family then the current agreement before us. I'm painfully aware of all of the threats and consequences that have been brought up if we end up in Arbitration and as I said, if I have to find another job, then so be it. In the end, all I want is to have some modicum (REPEAT, modicum) of QOL that I had before this happened. The current agreement will not even scratch the surface of what I currently have. And while it's clear another job wouldn't provide that either, I still have to vote my conscience based on the current agreement.