Max Powers
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Is ALPA Really Going To Allow This To Happen At UAL??
- Thread starter AA767AV8TOR
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Lear70
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I usually agree with you, but this one I'm going to have to disagree with.
The only realistic way Obama could stop it is if he repealed Open Skies completely, which opens a whole NEW can of worms...
It's going to take "burning down the house" at several Legacies to get out of the Draconian rules set up during bankruptcy to keep this a viable career. I give it 50/50 if today's pilots have the stomach for it... I hope they do.
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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Wow... the self defeatist and whiners are in abundance.....
Recall the UAL pilots in 1985 successfully struck and won. They've done it, and can do it again.
More importantly, all the cry babies on this thread have one thing in common....
"What is ALPA going to do?"
"ALPA had better...."
"If ALPA doesn't, then we are all screwed"
No one.... has stated.... "when and where do we strike. Count me in. I am solid, unified and ready to fight for my career"
Time to man up.......
With threats like this are excellent opportunies to rally the support and get in lock step with your fellow pilots. You don't have to be a UAL pilot to stand with the UAL pilots.......
Recall the UAL pilots in 1985 successfully struck and won. They've done it, and can do it again.
More importantly, all the cry babies on this thread have one thing in common....
"What is ALPA going to do?"
"ALPA had better...."
"If ALPA doesn't, then we are all screwed"
No one.... has stated.... "when and where do we strike. Count me in. I am solid, unified and ready to fight for my career"
Time to man up.......
With threats like this are excellent opportunies to rally the support and get in lock step with your fellow pilots. You don't have to be a UAL pilot to stand with the UAL pilots.......
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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Antitrust questions dog airline alliances
by: D.R. STEWART World Staff Writer
Saturday, March 14, 2009
3/14/2009 3:51:51 AM
A congressman, concerned about the growing power of global airline alliances and their effect on air fares, has introduced legislation calling for a federal study of alliances and the antitrust immunity they receive.
An airline industry trade group, however, says withdrawing antitrust immunity from airline alliances would carry a heavy price tag and cost the industry 15,000 jobs.
"Arbitrarily terminating antitrust immunity will have a harsh impact on airline employees and cause a ripple effect across the travel and tourism industry at a time when U.S. employment is escalating rapidly," said James C. May, chairman of the Air Transport Association, in a letter last week to Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn.
In February, Oberstar introduced H.R. 831, "A Bill to Ensure Adequate Airline Competition." Its provisions have since become attached to the FAA Reauthorization Bill, which is being considered by the House.
"I have become increasingly concerned with the decline of competition in international markets, particularly between the United States and Europe," Oberstar said. "These markets used to be served by independent carriers from most European countries and by a number of U.S. carriers. Increasingly, the market has come under the control of three alliances composed of one or more U.S. carriers and several European carriers."
Oberstar, chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, said three major airline alliances have come to dominate world airline service. They include the Star Alliance led by United Airlines, the SkyTeam alliance formed by Delta Air Lines and the oneworld alliance, whose members include American Airlines.
Alliance members, Oberstar said, have shifted from cooperating on ticketing and terminal lounges to asking the government to grant members of the alliance antitrust immunity to jointly plan services and fares across international markets.
Star and SkyTeam have been granted both U.S. and European Union antitrust immunity. An application for immunity by oneworld's American Airlines, British Airways and Iberia was filed last August, and a decision is expected this year.
Oberstar's legislation calls for a study of airline alliances by the Government Accountability Office. The GAO study would investigate:
"These alliances have strong market power," Oberstar said. "Combined, the Star, SkyTeam and oneworld alliances account for almost 80 percent of the total world airline capacity, 78 percent of world revenue passenger kilometers and 73 percent of passengers carried. These three alliances control over 87 percent of the traffic between the United States and Europe."
Michael Boyd, president of the Boyd Group International, an Evergreen, Colo., airline consultant, said alliances enhance passenger traffic and are "generally" beneficial.
"When American Airlines code shares with oneworld's Japan Airlines and Cathay Pacific, it gives them access to places they would never get to. That's fine," Boyd said. "The question is, when does an airline become a lift provider and lose its individuality? If Iberia flies a route and shares the revenue as if American flew it, it's going to hurt American jobs."
Greg Overman, spokesman for American's Allied Pilots Association, which represents 13,000 pilots, said Oberstar's legislation makes sense.
"In principle, the idea of a GAO study is in keeping with what we have been saying all along, which is: Let's take a long look at this," he said.
D.R. Stewart 581-8451
[email protected]
Copyright © 2009, World Publishing Co. All rights reserved
by: D.R. STEWART World Staff Writer
Saturday, March 14, 2009
3/14/2009 3:51:51 AM
A congressman, concerned about the growing power of global airline alliances and their effect on air fares, has introduced legislation calling for a federal study of alliances and the antitrust immunity they receive.
An airline industry trade group, however, says withdrawing antitrust immunity from airline alliances would carry a heavy price tag and cost the industry 15,000 jobs.
"Arbitrarily terminating antitrust immunity will have a harsh impact on airline employees and cause a ripple effect across the travel and tourism industry at a time when U.S. employment is escalating rapidly," said James C. May, chairman of the Air Transport Association, in a letter last week to Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn.
In February, Oberstar introduced H.R. 831, "A Bill to Ensure Adequate Airline Competition." Its provisions have since become attached to the FAA Reauthorization Bill, which is being considered by the House.
"I have become increasingly concerned with the decline of competition in international markets, particularly between the United States and Europe," Oberstar said. "These markets used to be served by independent carriers from most European countries and by a number of U.S. carriers. Increasingly, the market has come under the control of three alliances composed of one or more U.S. carriers and several European carriers."
Oberstar, chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, said three major airline alliances have come to dominate world airline service. They include the Star Alliance led by United Airlines, the SkyTeam alliance formed by Delta Air Lines and the oneworld alliance, whose members include American Airlines.
Alliance members, Oberstar said, have shifted from cooperating on ticketing and terminal lounges to asking the government to grant members of the alliance antitrust immunity to jointly plan services and fares across international markets.
Star and SkyTeam have been granted both U.S. and European Union antitrust immunity. An application for immunity by oneworld's American Airlines, British Airways and Iberia was filed last August, and a decision is expected this year.
Oberstar's legislation calls for a study of airline alliances by the Government Accountability Office. The GAO study would investigate:
- The legal requirements and policies followed by the Department of Transportation in deciding whether to approve alliances and grant antitrust exemptions.
- Whether there should be changes to the legislative authority under which DOT determines whether to grant antitrust immunity.
- Whether the DOT should exercise the right it has reserved to amend, modify or revoke any antitrust immunity previously granted.
"These alliances have strong market power," Oberstar said. "Combined, the Star, SkyTeam and oneworld alliances account for almost 80 percent of the total world airline capacity, 78 percent of world revenue passenger kilometers and 73 percent of passengers carried. These three alliances control over 87 percent of the traffic between the United States and Europe."
Michael Boyd, president of the Boyd Group International, an Evergreen, Colo., airline consultant, said alliances enhance passenger traffic and are "generally" beneficial.
"When American Airlines code shares with oneworld's Japan Airlines and Cathay Pacific, it gives them access to places they would never get to. That's fine," Boyd said. "The question is, when does an airline become a lift provider and lose its individuality? If Iberia flies a route and shares the revenue as if American flew it, it's going to hurt American jobs."
Greg Overman, spokesman for American's Allied Pilots Association, which represents 13,000 pilots, said Oberstar's legislation makes sense.
"In principle, the idea of a GAO study is in keeping with what we have been saying all along, which is: Let's take a long look at this," he said.
D.R. Stewart 581-8451
[email protected]
Copyright © 2009, World Publishing Co. All rights reserved
Tweaker
BOHICA
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2002
- Posts
- 736
"United's pilots have the contractual right to handle its flying. But one exception to this rule, negotiated during United's three-year bankruptcy, applies to joint ventures formed by United and Star Alliance partners, such as Aer Lingus."
They stupidly and short-sightedly did this to themselves. Just like the ALPO US Steel unyun "leaders" did to their pilot group. How do you strike over an issue that you agreed to? They made their bed, and now they have to lie in the wet spot.
I am not going to even address the harm that this does to the profession. That is not worth debating, as we can all agree on that at least.
This is not ALPO national's fault. This is the fault of the UAL unyun elected leaders. Don't get mad, go to school and educate yourself. Then preach to the masses, lead your pilot group out of the desert, STOP EATING YOUR YOUNG, AND BURNING YOUR GUNPOWDER TO KEEP WARM!
Fuktards and thiefs have and will always ride off into the sunset with a smug grin.
They stupidly and short-sightedly did this to themselves. Just like the ALPO US Steel unyun "leaders" did to their pilot group. How do you strike over an issue that you agreed to? They made their bed, and now they have to lie in the wet spot.
I am not going to even address the harm that this does to the profession. That is not worth debating, as we can all agree on that at least.
This is not ALPO national's fault. This is the fault of the UAL unyun elected leaders. Don't get mad, go to school and educate yourself. Then preach to the masses, lead your pilot group out of the desert, STOP EATING YOUR YOUNG, AND BURNING YOUR GUNPOWDER TO KEEP WARM!
Fuktards and thiefs have and will always ride off into the sunset with a smug grin.
I agree, but ALPA is feeling the sting of the UAL v. ALPA lawsuit, and that means an SOS will never happen. By the time we get to a strike vote at UAL, AMR, or any other legacy, the cat will be out of the bag and over the pond. Either way though, GGG.
nightfr8er
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2005
- Posts
- 56
<<<
Of course they will let it happen.
Their bag of tricks only consists of giant blow-up rats and "catchy" slogans.>>>
You got that right! Prater ran on a campaign of "taking it back". He--, I'm MUCH worse off now that I was then. He - and ALPA - haven't taken ANYTHING back!!!
ALPA couldn't stop a dog from pi$$ing on a fire hydrant.
Of course they will let it happen.
Their bag of tricks only consists of giant blow-up rats and "catchy" slogans.>>>
You got that right! Prater ran on a campaign of "taking it back". He--, I'm MUCH worse off now that I was then. He - and ALPA - haven't taken ANYTHING back!!!
ALPA couldn't stop a dog from pi$$ing on a fire hydrant.
WRONG, alpa will Always 'produce' more Money for alpa!!!! Now, airtran pilots will make their contribution to the Woerth, Prater, etc. Pension Plan!!
The only thing that Prater is 'taking back' is MONEY, dues money from other pilots.
PD
AirCobra
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2006
- Posts
- 4,575
Captain Heppner say it all:
"It's a major slap to employees," said Jay Heppner, a Boeing 777 captain for United and spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association.
Major airlines worldwide outsource flying to smaller cities to regional carriers, which tend to hire pilots at the beginning of their careers to fly turbo-props or jets with fewer than 100 seats.
Did you speak up when United was outsourcing 40% of its domestic flying to Regional Airlines? Oh I forgot, you were one of the guys willing to fly mainline routes for half the money, just so you could get your 1500 hours turbine PIC.
Didn't you just say in the another thread its the free market, and we major airline pilots "gave it away". Here is your quote in case you forgot.
Originally Posted by Rez O. Lewshun
You seem to have problems with the regional guys. Like you said its a free market. If you guys didn't give it away it would still be yours..
So outsourcing to cheap American labor is fine when you benefit and you were j"ust taking advantage of the free market", but now all of a sudden when you think it may affect you, you demand ALPA guys to stand up and do something.
I would lose the sanctimonius attitide.
Last edited:
eaglesview
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- May 5, 2008
- Posts
- 1,350
Won what??? The company wanted a B scale. The pilots struck...strike over....B scale in place. The end.
I have been getting my a$$ kicked as an ALPA pilot for 20 years now at both Eastern and UAL.
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