Is ALPA Really Going To Allow This To Happen At UAL??

[Tweaker]

"United's pilots have the contractual right to handle its flying. But one exception to this rule, negotiated during United's three-year bankruptcy, applies to joint ventures formed by United and Star Alliance partners, such as Aer Lingus."

They stupidly and short-sightedly did this to themselves. Just like the ALPO US Steel unyun "leaders" did to their pilot group. How do you strike over an issue that you agreed to? They made their bed, and now they have to lie in the wet spot.

I am not going to even address the harm that this does to the profession. That is not worth debating, as we can all agree on that at least.

This is not ALPO national's fault. This is the fault of the UAL unyun elected leaders. Don't get mad, go to school and educate yourself. Then preach to the masses, lead your pilot group out of the desert, STOP EATING YOUR YOUNG, AND BURNING YOUR GUNPOWDER TO KEEP WARM!

Fuktards and thiefs have and will always ride off into the sunset with a smug grin.

 

[wingslevl]

I say its time for the big guns.


SOS. All alpa carriers and support for non-alpa carriers who wish to jump on the bandwagon.

If this is not a reason for SOS then nothing is.

I agree, but ALPA is feeling the sting of the UAL v. ALPA lawsuit, and that means an SOS will never happen. By the time we get to a strike vote at UAL, AMR, or any other legacy, the cat will be out of the bag and over the pond. Either way though, GGG.

 

[nightfr8er]

<<<
Of course they will let it happen.

Their bag of tricks only consists of giant blow-up rats and "catchy" slogans.>>>

You got that right! Prater ran on a campaign of "taking it back". He--, I'm MUCH worse off now that I was then. He - and ALPA - haven't taken ANYTHING back!!!

ALPA couldn't stop a dog from pi$$ing on a fire hydrant.

 

[McNugget]

PIC on the A330, in sunny Spain? Sign me up! I like the idea of a fresh start-up....the type of operation that doesn't need union interference.

 

[LearLove]

"Is ALPA Really Going To Allow This To Happen At UAL?? "

He!! alpa probably suggested it and is in bed to make $$ from it somehow.

 

[whalefat]

Apparently it's not the same UAL that my godfather went on strike against. It's too bad. Maybe they'll find some rage and stick it to UAL in the end. One can only hope.

 

[scarlet]

Don't worry the folks at Tranny think ALPA has such GREAT RESOURCES ????

I have said when the pilots want a contract they will start controlling the throttles better and fly safe.

ALPA will not produce ANYTHING !!! Most Alpa pilots hate ALPA !!

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Don't worry the folks at Tranny think ALPA has such GREAT RESOURCES ????

I have said when the pilots want a contract they will start controlling the throttles better and fly safe.

ALPA will not produce ANYTHING !!! Most Alpa pilots hate ALPA !!

WRONG, alpa will Always 'produce' more Money for alpa!!!! Now, airtran pilots will make their contribution to the Woerth, Prater, etc. Pension Plan!!

The only thing that Prater is 'taking back' is MONEY, dues money from other pilots.

PD

 

[AirCobra]

Wow... the self defeatist and whiners are in abundance.....

Recall the UAL pilots in 1985 successfully struck and won. They've done it, and can do it again.

More importantly, all the cry babies on this thread have one thing in common....

"What is ALPA going to do?"

"ALPA had better...."

"If ALPA doesn't, then we are all screwed"


No one.... has stated.... "when and where do we strike. Count me in. I am solid, unified and ready to fight for my career"


Time to man up.......


With threats like this are excellent opportunies to rally the support and get in lock step with your fellow pilots. You don't have to be a UAL pilot to stand with the UAL pilots.......

Captain Heppner say it all:
"It's a major slap to employees," said Jay Heppner, a Boeing 777 captain for United and spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association.
Major airlines worldwide outsource flying to smaller cities to regional carriers, which tend to hire pilots at the beginning of their careers to fly turbo-props or jets with fewer than 100 seats.

Did you speak up when United was outsourcing 40% of its domestic flying to Regional Airlines? Oh I forgot, you were one of the guys willing to fly mainline routes for half the money, just so you could get your 1500 hours turbine PIC.

Didn't you just say in the another thread its the free market, and we major airline pilots "gave it away". Here is your quote in case you forgot.

Originally Posted by Rez O. Lewshun
You seem to have problems with the regional guys. Like you said its a free market. If you guys didn't give it away it would still be yours..

So outsourcing to cheap American labor is fine when you benefit and you were j"ust taking advantage of the free market", but now all of a sudden when you think it may affect you, you demand ALPA guys to stand up and do something.

I would lose the sanctimonius attitide.

 

[eaglesview]

Wow... the self defeatist and whiners are in abundance.....

Recall the UAL pilots in 1985 successfully struck and won. They've done it, and can do it again.

Won what??? The company wanted a B scale. The pilots struck...strike over....B scale in place. The end.

I have been getting my a$$ kicked as an ALPA pilot for 20 years now at both Eastern and UAL.

 

[Skippy]

it's the same at every airline ( regional or major) Mgmnt seems to have these little contract phrases and they just wait for hte perfect time to use them.

The only way ALPA can stop this is to give up something just like everything.

And please 1st of all there's no way a major airline strikes, regardless of what administration is in office

and second, UAL strike-- GMAFB never going to happen---

everyday UAL seems to suck more and more I mean , seriously, how many more of the these Freaking contract phrases are going to come out-- what's next? some abstract phrase that says on days with "Y's" in them we'll work for half the rate--- im sure it's in there somewhere.

And WTF? if we lost the court case , lost the appeal--- how do you plan to win an appeal for the discipline to the four pilots--- ALPA will never win that- unless they give up something.

same thing different airline.

SKIPPY

 

[eaglesview]

it's the same at every airline ( regional or major) Mgmnt seems to have these little contract phrases and they just wait for hte perfect time to use them.

The only way ALPA can stop this is to give up something just like everything.

And please 1st of all there's no way a major airline strikes, regardless of what administration is in office

and second, UAL strike-- GMAFB never going to happen---

everyday UAL seems to suck more and more I mean , seriously, how many more of the these Freaking contract phrases are going to come out-- what's next? some abstract phrase that says on days with "Y's" in them we'll work for half the rate--- im sure it's in there somewhere.

And WTF? if we lost the court case , lost the appeal--- how do you plan to win an appeal for the discipline to the four pilots--- ALPA will never win that- unless they give up something.

same thing different airline.

SKIPPY

To late to give something up there. 1st defendant got 60 days without pay, second got canned. I wonder if he gets a refund for all his ALPA dues. NOT

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

UAL Pilots continued to get hammered by Management. The beatings will continue until moral improves.

Just what is going on over there??

AA767AV8TOR

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=33330

By: John Pletz March 16, 2009

(Crain’s) — One of the four pilots named in a lawsuit by United Airlines alleging sick-leave abuse has been fired and another has been suspended, fueling tensions before the company begins union contract negotiations next month.

Capt. Steve Tamkin was fired and Capt. Rob Domaleski was given a 60-day suspension last week, according to a memo issued Friday by the Air Line Pilots Assn.

The two men were among those named in the lawsuit filed last year by United against ALPA in which the airline accused the pilots of organizing a sick-out campaign from July 19-27. On average, more than 500 pilots called in sick each day during that period, forcing United to cancel 329 flights and costing the airline $8 million in revenue, United claims.

The union contends the recent action against the two pilots is the opening shot in contract negotiations scheduled to begin in April. United pilots, who took a 40% pay cut when the airline was in bankruptcy proceedings, have made clear that they want to recover lost wages. The contract becomes amendable at the end of the year, though it technically does not expire because airline employees are covered by a federal law that dictates prolonged mediation and makes strikes difficult.

“The company’s intent,” according to the ALPA memo, “is to undermine and destroy not only your union at United Airlines but your very unity. Why? Because management well knows that your unity is the key to our success in the upcoming negotiations.”

The union and Mr. Domaleski decline to comment. Mr. Tamkin couldn’t immediately be reached for comment.
United took its pilots to federal court last year and won an injunction from U.S. District Judge Joan Lefkow in Chicago prohibiting pilots from using sick leave to protest decisions by airline management. The decision was upheld last week by the U.S. Court of Appeals.

The airline accused the pilots of launching the “sick-out” campaign over United’s decision to pare capacity in the face of high oil prices, resulting in the loss of 950 pilot jobs. The union said it worked to prevent a sick-out campaign.

United declined to comment specifically on recent actions, if any, involving the two pilots, but a spokeswoman said, “When a federal court finds that employees have intentionally and unlawfully acted to harm our company and our customers, we will hold them accountable.”

Judge Lefkow found that Messrs. Tamkin and Domaleski and the two others “were directly involved in instigating a sick-out among United’s junior pilots in July 2008.”

 

[F/O]

"We're taking it back"

If you say so Prater....

 

[OurMoney1]

It amusing that pilots scream ALPA under circumstances like these. ALPA's not going to do tihs...it falls into the laps of UAL local.

 

[ROSWELL41]

We know if this goes forward that there will be a line around the building to staff those A330's. Since the first flight is scheduled for March 2010, I bet they will be hiring in a few months. Don't get too mad at these guys, they are "just trying to feed their families."

 

[Skippy]

To late to give something up there. 1st defendant got 60 days without pay, second got canned. I wonder if he gets a refund for all his ALPA dues. NOT

it's never too late for the behind the scenes deal to be made---- AT TSA, we made it very clear that if you are going to be terminated or disciplined severely, not to expect the union to trade stuff, like grievances---- as in we wont fire him if you make such and such grievance go away--- we would just say screw it, we'll win them both- it's just a matter of time--- unfortunately the UAL local hasnt had magmnts number for -- how does that email go 5 years 9 months 2 weeks, 2 days 15 hours, 12 minutes and 4 seconds.... GMAFB

we've had so many damn ual/alpa slogans we could have a david letterman top ten:

we're taking it back
fix it
2172

please enter your own to make 10

i mean we cant even get our message board back up

 

[Mr.B]

I'd fly the safest jet in the fleet.

Know what I mean?

Gup

True and by the projected start-up date UAL/ALPA will be deep in Sec 6 negotiations and hopefully released from mediations. THEN the self-help can truly begin.

 

[Whine Lover]

"Don't get too mad at these guys, they are "just trying to feed their families."

Well..the inference here is that they would be scabbing, and that just wouldn't be so.

This is not struck work.

These are not United Jobs or Aerlingus jobs.

These are positions at a start up carrier that need to be filled. A start up that just happens to be owned by two different airlines.

Is it a way for United and Aerlingus to circumvent contractual rules,wages etc. ?

YES.

Does it make the individuals who go to work there scabs?

NO.

Do I like any of the above?

Certainly not.


But it is what it is, and quite often, reality sucks....

YKW

 

[ualdriver]

The cluelessness of so many posters is really shining in this thread. And for the guy(s) that claim to be UA pilots, have you called your rep or attending a union meeting or done ANYTHING besides read flightinfo.com to get any facts concerning this? I mean, you guys are acting like this is "new" information. We knew about this weeks ago.

1) First, the ALPA bashers. You guys are bashing ALPA over this? GMAFB. If I didn't have ALPA on the property, they'd be using UNITED airplanes with non-United pilots on these routes. ALPA is the only thing that is preventing that from happening.

2) I hate to say it, but this whole thing is just another code share. If you're posting on this thread and your airline has a codeshare with ANY other airline, you're going to have to explain to me how this is any different than the codeshare relationship you have with your partners. It's just another airline flying routes you could be flying. Yup, it sucks.

3) If there is a pilot group that really screwed up, unfortunately it's the Aer Lingus guys. It's THEIR airplanes that are being taken away from THEM and being flown by ANOTHER PILOT GROUP.

Most of you guys are getting worked up into a lather because because you see Aer Lingus pilots getting their aircraft taken away to be flown by non-union pilots. Great. Get worked up over that and support those guys because it does suck for them. Keep that from happening at your airline. If you have ALPA on your property, it probably can't happen anyway.

On this end of the pond however, I can't think of a major airline that doesn't have a codeshare with a foreign carrier with routes that could otherwise be flown by U.S. pilots. If that's what you're upset about......great. Where were you a decade ago? And why are you only bashing UA?