How to get the union on property!

[Majik]

Rocker, the merit system was put in place so that the person who excelled in their duties was rewarded with an upgrade, bonus or whatever. In every business there are people who excel and people who just bide their time. The merit system was set up to award the go the extra mile people maybe a little sooner than the bide your time people. Seniority still has alot to do with when you upgrade. CS won't take a 9 month go the extra mile person and upgrade them before a 12 month bide your time person.

Why do you think that every company would benefit with a union? IBM doesn't have a union and look how large they are. We are treated great by management here at CS. That is why there will NEVER be a union here at CS. We have alot of people from union backgrounds that are relieved to be away from a union shop. If you can't accept that fact, I'm sorry. I am not management, just a pilot flying the line like you. I don't even know while I'm answering you, because you won't answer my questions as to how long does it take on average to upgrade at NJ?

In a perfect world, you are right. It would be great if everyone could always stand on the same scale and be judged solely on merit. But when the managers that do the promotion decisions are out of sight and thousands of miles away, the equality of their judgement is a guess at best. Haven't you ever made a safety decision based on your experience and the fact that you were on the scene, only to be second-guessed by a manager that has a schedule to meet and owner services breathing down his neck? Are you sure he won't negatively remember your name as the guy that he had problems with, regardless of whether it was your fault. Having some form of job protection is like insurance.

Insurance is nothing but wasted money until you need it, and then it's the best money you ever spent. You may feel lucky and gamble that you will never need insurance. Good luck with that decision. I have friends at Options that were promised NJA pay plus 15% (remember that?). Since then, their quality of life has been going downhill fast.

The fear of a union is what has given your management the motivation to increase your pay at CS. I'm really happy for you that we (Local 1108) were able to scare your management into keeping you from falling too far behind us. I'll also be happy if your gamble pays off and they continue to match whatever gains NJA pilots are able to achieve over the next 20 years. The day they don't may be the day you wish you had purchased some insurance.

 

[netjetwife]

Speaking of insurance, I was very pleased to see short-term coverage added to the contract. I know 3 pilots within our gateway that had undue financial stress added to their injuries of --a broken arm, a broken leg, and a knee replacement. 1108 recognized the problem and went to bat for the pilot group. Accidents can happen to anyone. Pilots should ask themselves what position they'd be in if it happened to them. What is the policy where you work? Would your family lose its income? Has your meager salary allowed you to build up a significant emergency fund? What if you were the one in the next car wreck? When you're injured, keeping a roof over your family's head should be the least of your worries.

 

[FRACTRASH]

You only have to worry about the merit system, if you're one of these pilots that do a poor job. Not anyone deserves to excel in a company if they don't put out the goods. Most companies outside aviation have some kind of merit system.

As for my opinion of Unions, My father worked in the steel industry under a union for many years and lost his job, Thanks union! My grandfather worked in the coal industry under a union, lost his job, Thanks union! My uncle worked in the trucking industry, got screwed by Teamsters! I worked for an airline under ALPA for several years and also got screwed by the union. What makes you think your union will be any different. Remember this, your owner at NJ has deeper pockets then any union, so good luck with your future at NJ.

 

[Hawkered]

Fractrash; can you spell P-i-t-t-s-b-u-r-g-h? Okay, so you went to one of those Useless Air wannabe commuters? So you could say, "Two years ago I couldn't even fly a plane, now I'm an airline pilot!"

I think I saw you in Flying Magazine.

Fractrash, if you knew anything about any of these industries you just quoted you would know that unions had little to do with their demise.

Let me start with USair. Three screwed up mergers: Usair-Piedmont, Usair-PSA and Usair-Trump (Eastern) Shuttle. Three screwed up CEOs: Ed Cologny,(who ordered all those freakin' F-100s), Seth Schofield, (started as a baggage handler and spent his whole time as CEO on the golf course), and Steven Wolfe, (give it a coat of paint, call it new and take a golden parachute for doin' nothin').

They operated fifteen different aircraft on a predominantly East Coast domestic market with the corresponding costs of parts, staffing and training. Fourteen more than were necessary for doing the job. They were so ineffective at negotiations they nearly sold off half the operation at a fire sale to British Airways, their only hope of international-feed because no other alliance partner wanted them!

You blame the unions for this?!!

Alright...the steel industry.

The Japanese didn't stop sneak attacks after 1941!

They figured out that by dumping cheap steel on the US auto' industry they could lure the US manufacturers into believing there would be an endless supply of cheap steel. GM, Chrysler, Ford and Chevy bought it, and the steel mills were forced to close.

The price of Japanese steel has gone up more than tenfold and now the US Auto Industry is in trouble!

The problem now is not the unions but the EPA, it would take ten years to start one mill of the comparable size you saw of the seven or eight in Aliquippa as a small child.

Alrighty...then.

Coal. Yeppo those poor miners in Sago really held the gun to managements head now didn't they?!

You dumb idiot!!!

So you want child labor and no enforced workplace safety provisions.

Where do you think all of this started? The Teamsters probably save your sorry backside from being hit by a truck hauling steel as a small child too. That's where truck driver logs started so they wouldn't be falling asleep at the wheel.

Those nasty, nasty unions!

 

[XPGuy]

More FUD from fracttrash which only further proves he knows absolutely nothing about what he's trying to talk about.


Go back to the general aviation section, fractrash. This area is for professional pilots (and netjetswife).

 

[Guitar rocker]

. Most companies outside aviation have some kind of merit system.

.

Lets stick to aviation Trash. Your merit system is a sign that your mgmt has to question the credibility of one pilot over another. This isnt a sign of "top notch" mgmt as you say.

 

[Humphreybogart]

You dumb idiot!!!

Why the name calling? Can't you state your opinion without it? Grow up.

 

[Humphreybogart]

Go back to the general aviation section, fractrash. This area is for professional pilots (and netjetswife).

Dude, we're entitled to post on whatever forum we want. Why don't you go the the general aviation section, you don't sound like a professional at all, and tell Netjetswife to go back to the kitchen.

 

[Hawkered]

Look who's name caling now...IDIOT!!!

 

[Humphreybogart]

Lets stick to aviation Trash. Your merit system is a sign that your mgmt has to question the credibility of one pilot over another. This isnt a sign of "top notch" mgmt as you say.

Rocker, I hate to admit it but I'm starting to enjoy talking to you! The merit system was put in place to make us different from a total seniority based system. Seniority still has alot to do with upgrades. I upgraded 1 month after the class a month prior to me upgraded. Are there some that are "delayed" for a month or so, sure, but they really had to do something wrong along the way. We are eveluated and maybe those persons didn't show they had what it took to be a PIC at that time. You know as well as I that we conduct a different type of flying with all the different destinations and small airports we go to. I'm sure as we grow larger, we'll look into different ways to evaluate our peers. I still think it's for the betterment of CS.

 

[Humphreybogart]

Look who's name caling now...IDIOT!!!

Fricken baby.

 

[Hawkered]

Humphrey,

Why don't you go back to the kitchen? Are you racist as well as sexist?

It never ceases to amaze me how you guys who oppose the organising drive are both short on substance and original content in your arguments.

Another guy who can only pull apart somebody elses's post in the hope of getting a piece.

Did you always get the ugly one too, after guys like me left hours before with the prom' queen?

Thought so!

 

[hydrarkt]

I just found out that Flight Options has hired the union-busting firm of Ford and Harrison LLC to keep out 1108. The rhetoric and FUD will increase significantly now. It is up to each pilot to take everything management says and anything posted on this board and your own board with a grain of salt.

 

[Hawkered]

Talk about grabbing at straws!! Those guys will never be able to right the wrongs of the past!

Vive La Revolution!!!!

 

[XPGuy]

Dude, we're entitled to post on whatever forum we want. Why don't you go the the general aviation section, you don't sound like a professional at all, and tell Netjetswife to go back to the kitchen.

You wouldn't know a professional pilot if one kicked you in the shin, bogart. Your understanding of our industry is exactly what I would expect for someone with your limited experience in aviation. There is a big difference between flight instructing in your Cessna 172 and flying a 500mph jet into a mountainous terrain airport with passengers worth billions of dollars in the back seats in IFR weather conditions and a slick runway.

Netjets wife has more knowledge of our industry in her pinky then you do in that single cell organ you call a brain.

If you would post factual, debatable information to talk about, you wouldn't have people breathing down your necks all the time. You don't, though. You throw flame bait posts that have no facts, no basis of truth and only adamant opinion with no reason to have it.

You and Fractrash have yet to debate anything that would convince anyone to vote "no" in a union vote. I have challenged anyone to try to do so, and shot down every one of your anti-union baseless banter with fact upon fact, and never once have you tried to engage me in serious discussion. Therefore, you do not warrant mine.

Put your money where your mouth is. I've challenged you to answer my questions on anti-union opinion. No one has taken me up on it. If you can't do that, then shut the hell up, because you only make yourself look more like a fool by continuing to spout the same baseless lies that have already been stomped on with facts.