How to get the union on property!

[XPGuy]

LoL. The maturity of some of these guys is amazing. One minute your'e having a great discussion regarding the pro's and con's on things such as adding a union to your property or not, and then comes in these snott-nosed kids that just want to attack YOU, rather than the issues. It's funny, but it's also annoying, and there should be a level of tolerance that I think our moderators are lacking.

Stick to an issue, and I'll debate all day. Act like a child, and you get ignored. Grow up, people.

 

[Hawkered]

""""NEWSFLASH"""""""

The offices of IBT 1108 have now been approached for union representation at every major fractional aircraft operator!

I guess everyone is not quite as happy over there at CS or Flex Jet as what we are reading on these boards?!

Let the elections be called for!!!

 

[Humphreybogart]

Bogart, XPguy is right. Why should we quit if we dont like something??? If there is a chance to improve upon something, why not work together in a team and do so? If everyone were to quit if they didnt quite like something (as you suggest), I think that UAL, DAL, NWA, CAL, FEDEX, UPS....to name a few...would have been gone years ago.

The reason I say quit is because why would you want to subject yourself to the stress on not wanting to go to work because you hate your job when there are other companies in the same industry will treat you better than the one you're working for. The companies you mentioned above were held together because there were enough people that didn't hate their job/employer. They seen a bright future and were positive about the outlook.
XP on the other hand seems like a very negative person to me and doesn't have a bright/positive outlook on his future with his present company. That is why I say it's simple for XP...quit, there are better companies out there, maybe he's just too lazy to persue them.

 

[netjetwife]

It must be human nature to run when you can't defend your position. Most people don't wish to appear cowardly so they try to hide the fact that they're running from the truth...dodging the issue...and warping reality. Some will cover their retreat by trying to distract you with personal attacks. Those are the immature ones--easy to deal with. Persons in authority are usually more sophisticated, though no less frustrating to deal with.... For example, I placed a call today in regards to my family's battle for justice. When I begged to differ that the prosecutors were looking at the case with an open mind, I was told that they weren't going to "argue" about it with me. Clever! Right away they put the caller on the defensive. You are made to feel like you are in the wrong just for wanting to debate the issue. If you don't agree with them--you're arguing. The subject isn't even open for consideration. They shut you up before you can even make your case. When you make an appointment to go in personally to present your side, they refuse to say how much time they'll allot. They refuse to produce the records, accounts etc that you need to press your case. We all saw that with the NJ books and I'm facing that in my own struggle for the truth. When open dialog is refused, you should look for deception. No matter how cleverly it is disguised!

When you know you're right, don't back down!

 

[Humphreybogart]

""""NEWSFLASH"""""""

The offices of IBT 1108 have now been approached for union representation at every major fractional aircraft operator!

I guess everyone is not quite as happy over there at CS or Flex Jet as what we are reading on these boards?!

What a joker you are!!

 

[FracCapt]

Stick to an issue, and I'll debate all day. Act like a child, and you get ignored. Grow up, people.

Screw you! As long as I'm treated and paid like a child, I'll continue to act like one! GAME ON!!!!!!

 

[Guitar rocker]

The reason I say quit is because why would you want to subject yourself to the stress on not wanting to go to work because you hate your job when there are other companies in the same industry will treat you better than the one you're working for. The companies you mentioned above were held together because there were enough people that didn't hate their job/employer. They seen a bright future and were positive about the outlook.
XP on the other hand seems like a very negative person to me and doesn't have a bright/positive outlook on his future with his present company. That is why I say it's simple for XP...quit, there are better companies out there, maybe he's just too lazy to persue them.

Bogart, sometimes a person doesnt like their job because of the way that they are treated. As time went on and without a contract, we were becoming more upset and the resentment grew towards management simply because it seemed that not much progress or effort was being made. Heck, the screen reader who takes our food orders was making 200$ a year more than an FO) But so many of us had too much time invested in this to simply quit and move on. I am sure that I can speak for many here as well, but with the amount of time invested, there was no way that I was going to up and leave without seeing the end result, regardless if I was angry or not.

By hanging in there and sticking with the fight, the end result turned in our favor. Perhaps we didnt raise the bar for CS, but I think it's safe to say that we did for Flexjet and other corporate operators and hopefully Options mgmt will follow suit with a pay raise and benefits for those guys as well. As an example, lets say that I left right now and went to Flex or some other corporate outfit which followed suit with NJA's pay raise, I could probably say that I would be fine with that.....not that I would want to leave here. Had we all abandoned the fight and left for another frac or outfit without seeing it through to the end or becuase we were upset, nothing would have changed as it has today. By hanging in there in the tough times, we won and changed pay/rules etc. not for just us but for others as well.

 

[XPGuy]

Well, for the record, I LOVE my job. If I didn't, I WOULD leave. I don't have to leave because we need a Union on the property. Hell, the company can make my week on the road miserable, but they can't eat me!

 

[Humphreybogart]

Bogart, sometimes a person doesnt like their job because of the way that they are treated. As time went on and without a contract, we were becoming more upset and the resentment grew towards management simply because it seemed that not much progress or effort was being made. Heck, the screen reader who takes our food orders was making 200$ a year more than an FO) But so many of us had too much time invested in this to simply quit and move on. I am sure that I can speak for many here as well, but with the amount of time invested, there was no way that I was going to up and leave without seeing the end result, regardless if I was angry or not.

Rocker, I understand your position, you looked at the bright outcome that you could achieve. I'm sure some of the people who left NJ and CS before our pay increase are now second guessing their desicions if pay was their only issue with our respected companies. Why must people like XP "bash" others who don't agree with them? Alot of anger in their posts. You attract more bees with honey than vinegar. Is NetJetWife a former nun?

 

[netjetwife]

Nuns have children do they? We have 3 bright kids that are proud of our family's stand for fairness. They're used to "sharing" their dad with the NJ pilots. Like their parents, they find it easy to support such a worthy cause. I see the current "battle" in the fractional industry as a great learning opportunity for the children of the frac pilots. Standing up for yourself is a lesson that will carry them into adulthood with a strong backbone and an analytical mind. A good/fair contract will provide the college funds that will enable them to make the most of lessons learned. Being able to save for your children's college education is one of the benchmarks of a professional salary.

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE TREATED/PAID ACCORDINGLY

 

[Humphreybogart]

I see the current "battle" in the fractional industry as a great learning opportunity for the children of the frac pilots.

In all honesty, where, other than FLOPS, is their a "battle" in the fractional industry? Nj got what they wanted, CS got what they wanted (without having to fight for it I might add), and FLEX is seeing a raise as well. There is one frac company that is being dumped on. It's really too bad for them and I feel bad for them. Like I said before, I have some friends at FLOPS. On the company side, FLOPS management was going to give them some sort of compensation in reflect of what the rest of the industry was doing, but when they found out about the union inquiries, they took it away. So maybe without the union thing, they would have gotten their just due. The thought of the union screwed it up for the FLOPS people. NJW, please step down from the union soapbox and look at things through open eyes. No union here.

 

[FRACTRASH]

No Union needed here at CS!

 

[FRACTRASH]

much of the fractional and corporate industry has reaped the rewards from our fight. With that in mind, why should we have all quit??? We have made it better, havent we???

Rocker, you made it better at NJ. It was already good at CS, so quit patting yourself on the back. Just remember one thing, if a company wants to be ugly to its employees, it doesn't matter if you're union or nonunion, they have ways to get what they want. I speak from experience. Now let the name calling begin!

 

[Apeman]

Bogart---I won't chime in and say anything about CS, because I don't work there. All I ask is you don't chime in and say anything about Flops. There was no raise coming to us---period! Don't speak about what you don't know!

 

[theo]

Please do..and for your own sake! What happens if Netjets goes after the light jet market by offering Cessna a deal they can't refuse?

STAPLE...unless you're a dues paying member.

So, in other words, join a union to protect yourself from other unions?

 

[Hawkered]

No. It's like insurance. Unions offer a process of checks and balances so that you and your livelihood don't get lost in the corporate shuffle. We have paid for that insurance with our dues. If you don't have that same insurance..you wont be protected in a buy out.

None of you have to join the union yet, but if we had a merger, our scope clause and craft protections will not allow you to fly any of our aircraft unless you become a dues paying union member.

 

[Humphreybogart]

Bogart---I won't chime in and say anything about CS, because I don't work there. All I ask is you don't chime in and say anything about Flops. There was no raise coming to us---period! Don't speak about what you don't know!

I'm just going by what my friends at FLOPS and other FLOPS pilots told me on the road. A big announcement was comming on January 31. Not trying to stir any rumors here.

 

[theo]

No. It's like insurance. Unions offer a process of checks and balances so that you and your livelihood don't get lost in the corporate shuffle. We have paid for that insurance with our dues. If you don't have that same insurance..you wont be protected in a buy out.

None of you have to join the union yet, but if we had a merger, our scope clause and craft protections will not allow you to fly any of our aircraft unless you become a dues paying union member.

Seems like that is what the mafia calls it "insurance" when they are out getting "protection" money from the poor store owner in the Godfather!

 

[Guitar rocker]

much of the fractional and corporate industry has reaped the rewards from our fight. With that in mind, why should we have all quit??? We have made it better, havent we???

Rocker, you made it better at NJ. It was already good at CS, so quit patting yourself on the back. Just remember one thing, if a company wants to be ugly to its employees, it doesn't matter if you're union or nonunion, they have ways to get what they want. I speak from experience. Now let the name calling begin!

Wait a minute junior, we made it better at NJA, but also at Flex and other corporate outfits too. Obviously as YOU have pointed out, we had zero impact on your pay.....it was all just coincidence! Yah, not one of us at NJA can possibly pat themselves on the back for what YOU got! Do YOU really have experience in anything???? I like the, "I speak from experience" thing...........you must be referring to your most recent CFI or 711 days...which were probably only a few short months ago.

As you said, "JUST REMEMBER ONE THING," a company with a union is going to have a much harder time trying to make things "ugly" for someone. One without a union, can make it "ugly" at the drop of a hat.........thats what happens when there are no rules to go by. We had a situation where it got real "ugly" for someone........our union pilots got him back on the payroll. Who do you guys have that can speak for one of your own like THAT?

 

[Guitar rocker]

Seems like that is what the mafia calls it "insurance" when they are out getting "protection" money from the poor store owner in the Godfather!

Theo, are you that stupid so as to not understand what Hawkered is getting at??? Guess the only way for you to possibly get it through that thick skull of yours if for your company to be bought out and lets see where you fall then. Your poor store owner and Godfather thing are truly pathetic. Cant you at least listen to someone elses point???