How to get the union on property!

[Hawkered]

Please do..and for your own sake! What happens if Netjets goes after the light jet market by offering Cessna a deal they can't refuse?

STAPLE...unless you're a dues paying member.

 

[Guitar rocker]

No one seems to want to answer my simple questions. Maybe I should start a Union drive at Citation share......LOL

Trash will be back. He probably will give you some answer that really doesnt answer your question though.

 

[Hawkered]

He went to the store to buy a dictionary...

 

[XPGuy]

FracTrash was probably an Eastern Scab!

I doubt it - he was probably in diapers during the Eastern strike.

 

[XPGuy]

Why is everyone so down on unions? Most pilots should have come to the realization that sooner or later they will be flying for a unionized company.

What are the advantages of NOT having union representation at places like citationshare?

You don't pay union dues. That's the only advantage. Of course, if you ask any Net Jets pilot, I doubt they are complaining about paying their measly 1.5% monthly union dues for the $30k+ raise each and every one of them recently received, not to mention, one crew just put one off the runway, and they will reap the benefits of a Union representing them in the aftermath of bending up an airplane.

Fractrash has the brains of a frozen cranberry. Just do a history of his posts and you will see that he really has no concept of fractional aviation, and his posts are always demeaning to others, forcing them on the defensive, and supplying no factual information for his blasting flamebait posts.


Fewer and fewer companies in aviation that are considered "large" don't have unions. One of the most recognized companies for not having a union and having an excellent relationship with management in the past is SkyWest airlines.

Well, Skywest airlines is now in a union drive trying to get ALPA on the property. The problem? A common one that often makes people wish they had a union already - mergers & aquisitions.

SkyWest recently purchased ASA. ASA is ALPA. Although SkyWest is trying very hard to not put ASA and SkyWest planes on the same route, they have already put pilots and planes interchangeably at all hubs (KSLC, KATL, etc.).

Both pilot groups are worried about the other - airplanes going to one "company", therefore upgrades are attached, any down-sizing, etc. Also, ASA is worried rightfully so, that should the unlikely but still possible situation that ASA strike, the SkyWest pilots are not unionized, and could be forced to fly ASA's "struck work"... and in fact the company could utilize SkyWest's pilots at leisure, including hiring more pilots, to fly ASA's aircraft.

The fact that ASA has a contract protecting them and SkyWest does not puts SkyWest pilots in a dangerous position. SkyWest pilots have zero leverage with the parent company, and ASA does. ASA wants to file for single-carrier status - as they should. They fly the exact same equipment (CRJ's), and hub out of the exact same cities, for the most part. There is language in ASA's contract (as all contracts have) which allows them to file for single-carrier status in such situations.

The company is adamantly fighting it obviously, as if the petition for single-carrier status were approved, then all the SkyWest pilots would be subjected to BECOME ALPA union members, or at least to pay ALPA dues.

Here's the problem for SkyWest. If ASA were to win the single-carrier status, and SkyWest's pilots were not unionized, they would be subject to a staple of all their pilots to the bottom of the ASA seniority list. There is absolutely no protection for the SkyWest pilots.

Now. If SkyWest wins a vote and gets ALPA on the property, then it's a win-win for the SkyWest pilots, because now they can HELP with the single-carrier status... why would they do that? Because if the vote wins, it could take years to negotiate a contract... if they get single carrier status, they would fold in ASA's contract (which isn't bad at all for a regional, I believe theirs is slightly higher than ComAir's), and save years of negotiating a contract.

Also, obviously, ALPA pilots merging to another ALPA seniority list will be as per the ALPA contract, and would be a date-of-hire integration, NOT a staple.

As you can see, even the best relationships between management and employees can change literally overnight. When ASA was purchased by SkyWest, the relationship between SkyWest's pilots and management changed drastically, forcing those pilots to desperately need a union to protect them.

Flight Options was the same way. There was a time at Flight Options, before the merger with Travel Air, that a Union would have never been a possibility - the pilots for the most part were happy. Again, the catalyst of change was a merger with Raytheon's Travel Air, and subsequently, 3 different CEO's (4 including Raytheon Travel Air's CEO) since then who have done nothing but cut away the life style and benefits of the pilots.

The saying that our Union organizers are wanting us to say over and over again to our people so they remember, is this:

Management may come and go, but a CONTRACT ALWAYS STAYS.



Flight Options has a gigantic Neon sign saying FOR SALE BY OWNER around our the nose of all our airplanes, and we all know it. We could be merged or aquired sometime this year very easily. If that happens, if we have no union on the grounds, we will experience the same hardships we felt when RTA and Flight Options merged. If we happen to merge with another company that has a union on the property, we will be subject to a stapling of our seniority list.

It truly is in our best interest to have a Union to protect us in these situations, and I would like to hear any anti-union persons' argument that we are better off NOT having a union in these situations.

By the way. Flex Jet and Citation Shares are not immune to mergers or aquisitions. What seems highly improbably today can change tomorrow, just like who it is who's leading those companies. What Citation Shares pilots enjoy today (meaning reaping the benefits of Net Jets' contract) can be taken away tomorrow with a depressed economy. Without a Union, you are naked, and certainly don't have any protection. At least with a Union, you have a bullet proof vest on. It may not stop ALL bullets, but it'll stop most of them.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Excellent post XP Guy.

 

[FRACTRASH]

I did fly for a Union shop, for years, what a joke. Payed a sh!t load of Union dues for nothing but unemployment. Why, because all the flying went to the lowest bidder, who was also represented by the same Union. Unions are good at one thing lining their pockets with your union dues.


As far as a stapler. Now that's a laugh. CS is leading the future in how the fractional model should be ran. I'm not management, like some like to claim and I can tell you life is good at CS. We have a top notch management team that is a real pleasure to work for. You're not just a seniority number here.

 

[Diesel]

Frac-

Do you even understand the fractional model. Do you even understand how it works with an owner that has a contract. Do you even understand what a scope clause is? It's obvious you don't.

You're another family guy. Another company mole whos job it is to make sure that the evil union is blemished. MY union is 1108. They represent me.

So i'm sorry you had a poor experience with a crappy union. But that was at brand X and nobody cares about that. Maybe instead of b!tching about the union you should have jumped in and given a hand.

But no it's easier to yell from the sidelines. It's easier to complain and spread fear and doubt about how you were wronged.

Good luck to you.

 

[Hawkered]

Hey FracTrash?

When your last friend dumped you, did that mean that your new one will too?!

We had a bad union at Netjets!

We don't anymore man!!

Now..we have a "proven" model of progress and mutual respect. Don't let the misfortunes of the past railroad you into failure in the future!

 

[Safetycheck]

Railroad

Hey FracTrash?

When your last friend dumped you, did that mean that your new one will too?!

We had a bad union at Netjets!

We don't anymore man!!

Now..we have a "proven" model of progress and mutual respect. Don't let the misfortunes of the past railroad you into failure in the future!

Yea, railroad. Thats where he probably worked for a union last...at the railroad.