How is Life at Gojets?

[Options_SLAVE]

Ah, but the reason they are one list now is that Mesa ALPA petitioned the NMB and were successful in making the lists one list, because in fact Freedom Air was formed strictly for flying formerly Mesa Airlines routes, and pressuring both CCAir and Mesa airline pilots to whipsaw against each other, and the sole purpose of the airline's existance was to get around Mesa's unionized pilots and their CBA.

TSA pilots petitioned the NMB for single carrier status but they were rejected because GoJet is NOT flying the same routes that TSA was flying and in fact GoJet was NOT formed to circumvent TSA's unionized pilots, but to be free from AA's scope prohibiting Trans States Airlines from operating any jets for ANYONE with jets with more than 50 seats, which was also easily proved as such in court. The forming of GoJet had absolutely nothing to do with the TSA pilots' contract with TSAH. Of course management will be management, and they did make an offer to put both airlines on one list, but that "offer" that TSAH gave to the pilots for a single list of course had a couple loop holes that the TSA pilots of course found unacceptable. GoJet, however, would have been and in fact was formed even if a single list would have been voted on, or if the TSA pilots did win their petition or court case.

Therefore, no, I submit GoJet is not an alter-ego airline, but is a completely separate airline with different routes and a completely different client, and is proved by both the U.S. courts and the NMB.

 

[ttuite]

Actually, it's the closest comparable issue surrounding mainline pilots - pilots flying as "EXPRESS" or "CONNECTION" for peanuts on a dollar. Another one is the whole Eagle vs. TSA issue, and you say it's a management decision, yet you say this isn't. See the double standard?

But OK... I'll settle for an answer to this:

ALPA filed a lawsuit against TSHoldings and lost; ALPA petitioned NMB to declare single carrier status between TSA and GoJet and NMB rejected it. ALPA never instituted a recruitment boycott of GoJet like they did with Cathay Pacific. So..... how did a pilot hired by GoJets today harm you in wake of NMB and legal decisions? There's no doubt that the initial group that started at GoJet back during those legal battles did so with intent to bypass seniority, and yes, you should shun those guys. However, my question pertains to those hired TODAY - in light of legal decisions rendered, how are they harming TSA pilots?

Can someone please answer?

While you are at it can you answer one more question? When GoJets was formed why didn't a group of TSA pilots just go over in the first wave and vote out the Teamsters and reinstitute ALPA? I realize that Hulas learned his lesson watching Freedom be recaptured by Mesa and that he brought his first group of handpicked pilots over and put Teamsters in place. All the TSA MEC had to do was have their members go over, decertify the Teamsters and reinstitute ALPA. I think that there were some big ego's on both sides involved and the TSA MEC blew the opportunity. It always amazes me to see certain people jump on Mesa while Mesa pilots gave up almost everything to recapture the Freedom flying. Maybe TSA pilots should quit blaming everyone else for their problems and look within for fault.

 

[CX880]

While you are at it can you answer one more question? When GoJets was formed why didn't a group of TSA pilots just go over in the first wave and vote out the Teamsters and reinstitute ALPA? I realize that Hulas learned his lesson watching Freedom be recaptured by Mesa and that he brought his first group of handpicked pilots over and put Teamsters in place. All the TSA MEC had to do was have their members go over, decertify the Teamsters and reinstitute ALPA. I think that there were some big ego's on both sides involved and the TSA MEC blew the opportunity. It always amazes me to see certain people jump on Mesa while Mesa pilots gave up almost everything to recapture the Freedom flying. Maybe TSA pilots should quit blaming everyone else for their problems and look within for fault.

That's a little too much to comprehend for most who get their info second hand. Someone said scab, they follow along with it.

 

[motch]

Just to clarify something...
At the time of the NMB case, I do not believe GoJets was flying any TSA-United Express routes.
After the court sided with TSAH/GoJet, they did start replacing certain TSA routes.

And again, just because one court in one district votes one way, doesn't mean another court in another district will vote the same.

TSA pilots learned that the hard way. Guess you think OJ didn't do it either?

 

[Caspian27]

Ah, but the reason they are one list now is that Mesa ALPA petitioned the NMB and were successful in making the lists one list, because in fact Freedom Air was formed strictly for flying formerly Mesa Airlines routes, and pressuring both CCAir and Mesa airline pilots to whipsaw against each other, and the sole purpose of the airline's existance was to get around Mesa's unionized pilots and their CBA.

TSA pilots petitioned the NMB for single carrier status but they were rejected because GoJet is NOT flying the same routes that TSA was flying and in fact GoJet was NOT formed to circumvent TSA's unionized pilots, but to be free from AA's scope prohibiting Trans States Airlines from operating any jets for ANYONE with jets with more than 50 seats, which was also easily proved as such in court. The forming of GoJet had absolutely nothing to do with the TSA pilots' contract with TSAH. Of course management will be management, and they did make an offer to put both airlines on one list, but that "offer" that TSAH gave to the pilots for a single list of course had a couple loop holes that the TSA pilots of course found unacceptable. GoJet, however, would have been and in fact was formed even if a single list would have been voted on, or if the TSA pilots did win their petition or court case.

Therefore, no, I submit GoJet is not an alter-ego airline, but is a completely separate airline with different routes and a completely different client, and is proved by both the U.S. courts and the NMB.

I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of...disagree with you...

Bottom line, both airlines are owned by the same company, and it just isn't right for one to furlough while the other is hiring.

I've never worked for TSA, so I have no "dog" in this fight. But nothing in your defense convinced me that this isn't the same as Freedom-A.

 

[FO 4 Life]

Bottom line, both airlines are owned by the same company, and it just isn't right for one to furlough while the other is hiring.

That is why Eagle has a 16 year contract. They wanted the 4 Eagles joined into one list and had to take it in the shorts to get it. AMR would continually whipsaw one versus the other until it happened.

 

[Freight Dog]

Just to clarify something...
At the time of the NMB case, I do not believe GoJets was flying any TSA-United Express routes.
After the court sided with TSAH/GoJet, they did start replacing certain TSA routes.

And again, just because one court in one district votes one way, doesn't mean another court in another district will vote the same.

TSA pilots learned that the hard way. Guess you think OJ didn't do it either?

Then why don't you as an ALPA-dues paying member go to your reps and bring about a motion to re-file single carrier status pretition with NMB?

If you can prove that it is indeed the same airline, then you'll have the support of every decent airline pilot out there.

Sitting here, and whining about "GayJet scabs stealing our minimum wage jobs we stole from the mainline.... boohoohooo..... I'm gonna deny GoJet jumpseaters a ride.... boohoohooo!!!!" ain't gonna do a damn thing. Either do something about it to bring them back into your fault, or move on.

As it stands right now, GoJet is a separate airline, ruled on by a judge AND by NMB.

 

[Melfly]

How about GJ pilots aren't allowed on my jumpseat, for numerous reasons....


Sorry, if they are the only ones hiring but hope you in live in St. Louis.

 

[FlyWolf]

How about GJ pilots aren't allowed on my jumpseat, for numerous reasons....


Sorry, if they are the only ones hiring but hope you in live in St. Louis.

You need to grow up.

 

[Freight Dog]

How about GJ pilots aren't allowed on my jumpseat, for numerous reasons....


Sorry, if they are the only ones hiring but hope you in live in St. Louis.

At 400 hours and a commercial ticket, you get to decide who rides the jumpseat?

 

[Melfly]

At 400 hours and a commercial ticket, you get to decide who rides the jumpseat?

Yup 400 hours and a commercial ticket allows that

Their pilot group chose to bypass our union jumpseating commitee and went directly to our management to get permission for the jumpseat. Which is ironic because even our own management thought it was wrong.

I also have noticed that some GJ pilots are aware of this problem, and sneak on the back of the airplane in STL, with out ever checking in up front. Manners are hard to come by these days.

 

[McNugget]

Yup 400 hours and a commercial ticket allows that

Don't let your CFI expire.

 

[Freight Dog]

Yup 400 hours and a commercial ticket allows that

Their pilot group chose to bypass our union jumpseating commitee and went directly to our management to get permission for the jumpseat. Which is ironic because even our own management thought it was wrong.

I also have noticed that some GJ pilots are aware of this problem, and sneak on the back of the airplane in STL, with out ever checking in up front. Manners are hard to come by these days.

That's why shunning those guys is a bad idea. You want to accomplish something these days... you should be so lucky for GoJet to hire as many high time furloughed ATA/Aloha/Champion guys and then you engage them in helping your cause. Chances are they've been ALPA members way longer than most TSA pilots...

Engaging in a pissing contest with another group, especially when that group is about to consist of laid off mainline pilots only serves to further the management cause and further set you back. I don't know why is this such a difficult concept to grasp.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Yup 400 hours and a commercial ticket allows that

Their pilot group chose to bypass our union jumpseating commitee and went directly to our management to get permission for the jumpseat. Which is ironic because even our own management thought it was wrong.

I also have noticed that some GJ pilots are aware of this problem, and sneak on the back of the airplane in STL, with out ever checking in up front. Manners are hard to come by these days.

Hmm.

If you are an exhibition of "good" manners then I'll pass on your opinions.

If all you have is a commercial pilot license then you do NOT make the jumpseat decision, as you are only a gear jerker, as it takes someone with an ATP to be a Captain on an airplane that is being talked about in this thread. Unless you fly for Cape Air, I doubt you even fly for a company that has any jumpseat agreements if in fact you and your commercial ticket are making jumpseater decisions.

Also, I have personally never seen any jumpseater ever not check in and say hi to the crew when walking on board at least thanking them for the ride, and I've been airline flying for at least as half as long as you are alive I'd bet, maybe longer.

If you work for a real 121 operator you'd know that in their GOM it will state something to the effect that a jumpseater (whether riding in the back or not) must check in with the Captain and present his ID and pilot's license, possibly even a medical before allowed access on board as an ACM, as it is the Captain (ATP holder)'s final decision.

If a pilot walks back without saying hi to the crew he probably isn't jumpseating but riding on a pass, or he already talked to the crew before, etc.

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

 

[Tar Heel]

I also have noticed that some GJ pilots are aware of this problem, and sneak on the back of the airplane in STL, with out ever checking in up front. Manners are hard to come by these days.

Poor jumpseat ettiquette happens everywhere and isn't selective to one pilot group or airline. You cannot tell me it's just GoJet pilots doing this to you - I would be tempted to throw out the BS flag. We've all seen how some individuals (regardless of who they work for) do not take the time to do the right thing. There is always going to be that one person out there, but the other 99% of the time people do the right thing. That does not mean the entire pilot cadre thinks or acts this way. Don't throw stones in a glass house.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

At his airline, the FO's make the jumpseat decisions. That's all I needed to read in regards to anything he says. ;-)

 

[FlyWolf]

Their pilot group chose to bypass our union jumpseating commitee and went directly to our management to get permission for the jumpseat. Which is ironic because even our own management thought it was wrong.

Act like little kids and that what will happen to you, when you start acting like professionals and grow up maybe other pilot groups will respect you. Don't start jumpseat wars, we (the professional airline pilots) worked very hard to establish this privilege to benefit us all.

 

[McNugget]

Act like little kids and that what will happen to you, when you start acting like professionals and grow up maybe other pilot groups will respect you. We (here at Midwest) will never deny a j/s to anyone and would never use the j/s to make a point, so again grow up and don't start jumpseat wars, we (the professional airline pilots) worked very hard to establish this privilege to benefit us all.

Yeah, and Al Gore invented the internet! You didn't establish anything, so be sure not to break a leg as you tumble off your soapbox.

 

[FlyWolf]

Yes! A great job flying smelly, arrogant, brown people dressed in bed linens.

aren't you the proud owner of the above comment?
enough said..........

 

[McNugget]

aren't you the proud owner of the above comment?
enough said..........

Hi!

It took you an hour and twenty minutes to come up with that lame retort?

Try Harder! U CAN DO IT!

 

[Turtlesfly]

Hmm.

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Really? This coming from the guy who said I am a know-it-all captain because I listed "4000 hours" in my profile? This might be because 1. I don't update it, or 2. I spend time in the training house teaching our pilots and therefore don't accumulate time as fast as other pilots.

But I'm glad you don't judge! f-in hypocrite.

It's also interesting that I said that you would respond by blaming your decision on a court decision. That's exactly what you did a few posts ago. Now I can congratulate myself. You keep saying "The court says that we're different." Yeah, that whole direct-path to the left seat didn't have ANYTHING to do with people going there.


BTW, now I DO carry a list of original GoJetters thanks to some on this board.

 

[Turtlesfly]

we (the professional airline pilots) worked very hard to establish this privilege to benefit us all.

did you go from GoJets to Midwest?

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Really? This coming from the guy who said I am a know-it-all captain because I listed "4000 hours" in my profile? This might be because 1. I don't update it, or 2. I spend time in the training house teaching our pilots and therefore don't accumulate time as fast as other pilots.

But I'm glad you don't judge! f-in hypocrite.

It's also interesting that I said that you would respond by blaming your decision on a court decision. That's exactly what you did a few posts ago. Now I can congratulate myself. You keep saying "The court says that we're different." Yeah, that whole direct-path to the left seat didn't have ANYTHING to do with people going there.


BTW, now I DO carry a list of original GoJetters thanks to some on this board.

(Yawn)


You bore me with your immature arguing, Turtle. You are very obviously pretending to be something you're not - experienced. You also forgot option 3: You only have 4000 hours. Go grow up, then come back and talk with facts, Captain know-it-all. Instead of just b1tching at people try contributing content people care about reading, or is flaming the only thing you are capable of?

 

[Tarzan]

Act like little kids and that what will happen to you, when you start acting like professionals and grow up maybe other pilot groups will respect you. Don't start jumpseat wars, we (the professional airline pilots) worked very hard to establish this privilege to benefit us all.

I won't argue this. However, didn't TSA crews work hard to be a viable option for management to secure more flying?

I may not be the final say on whether or not a GJ gets on the jump seat but I will do my best to talk the boss into it. It isn't personal but I believe it is the best interest of all if we tell pilots who support these sorts of actions by management that we do not condone these actions and will not support them.

 

[FlyWolf]

did you go from GoJets to Midwest?

No, I didn't.

 

[FlyWolf]

I won't argue this. However, didn't TSA crews work hard to be a viable option for management to secure more flying?

I may not be the final say on whether or not a GJ gets on the jump seat but I will do my best to talk the boss into it. It isn't personal but I believe it is the best interest of all if we tell pilots who support these sorts of actions by management that we do not condone these actions and will not support them.

I don't have a dog in this fight, the only point I made is what the guy with 400 hours said, and he thinks he knows it all.

Its very simple, keep the j/s out of this, and don't start a j/s wars, we all worked too hard to get it in the first place and would hate to lose it.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

I won't argue this. However, didn't TSA crews work hard to be a viable option for management to secure more flying?

I may not be the final say on whether or not a GJ gets on the jump seat but I will do my best to talk the boss into it. It isn't personal but I believe it is the best interest of all if we tell pilots who support these sorts of actions by management that we do not condone these actions and will not support them.

That makes zero sense. Starting a jumpseat war does nothing but hurt pilots who have nothing to do with management. Even the courts and the NMB decided against the TSA pilots on this one. GoJet has been proven to be a legitimate airline, and ALL the new-hires are furloughed pilots from other airlines, now. Including TSA. Taking it out on a pilot who had nothing to do with any of it is not fair. Regardless, it's moot. No one's been bumped off a j/s that I can find at this company. The opinion you are sharing is definitely in the very small minority.

 

[Turtlesfly]

That makes zero sense. Starting a jumpseat war does nothing but hurt pilots who have nothing to do with management. Even the courts and the NMB decided against the TSA pilots on this one. GoJet has been proven to be a legitimate airline, and ALL the new-hires are furloughed pilots from other airlines, now. Including TSA. Taking it out on a pilot who had nothing to do with any of it is not fair. Regardless, it's moot. No one's been bumped off a j/s that I can find at this company. The opinion you are sharing is definitely in the very small minority.

You're a union leader right? Why do you refuse to talk about the UNION and the EMPLOYEES? All you talk about is yourself and hiding behind some judge that you found to agree with your career-advancing decisions.

 

[Turtlesfly]

I'm all for a jumpseat war. If a company founded by scabs has no consequences for their actions, then I might as well just be pro-scab.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

Hi!

It took you an hour and twenty minutes to come up with that lame retort?

Try Harder! U CAN DO IT!

Maybe he has a life and logged off for an hour and twenty and then replied when he logged back on.