Got the Rejection Letter from Usairways

[PCL_128]

I'm surprised that ALPA allows US to participate in KCM which they helped develop without ANY help from USAPA. I can assure you, USAPA would be too petty to return any favors (as if they had any to offer, except dragging down the "market rates" and making negotiations more difficult for everyone.

I doubt the TSA would have gone along with the program if we had tried to exclude certain pilot groups from it for political reasons.

 

[The Drizzle]

have we gotten to where an FO with 1000 SIC and nothing more on his resume has the expectation to get picked up by a legacy airline? Buddy... I had to get 1000 PIC turbine before American originally gave me a ring in 2001... and I was one of the light weights in my class... we had Military colonels and captains on 747s at Atlas, etc.. Upgrade on the "jungle Jet" and then you can complain when USAir or any other legacy airline turns you down for an interview.

Funny, I know two guys starting at your airline(tomorrow I think) that don't have a lick of TPIC. One of them has no PIC outside of training for his ratings.

 

[HA25]

Lol.........sure.

Lee Moak's own words. Don't agree with it, take it up with him.

 

[HA25]

Funny, I know two guys starting at your airline(tomorrow I think) that don't have a lick of TPIC. One of them has no PIC outside of training for his ratings.

No comment.

 

[Friend]

SO Drizzle,

All those Comair FO's on the street who have thousands of hours of SIC on the CRJ will have no chance to get on with Usairways, times are changing my friend, its all about supply and demand and also who you know, and my luck i dont know anyone :-(

 

[General Lee]

Division? Your ALPA leader in 2005 D. Woerth sighned the TA which says that the seniority list becomes effective after a contract is ratified. That was ALPA's idea not mine. Yes Field Marshall we are divided until we ratify a contract. What part of the ALPA made TA don't you get? I think the AWA guys and gals will get their ALPA sponsored windfall in about four to five years.

No Charlie, your group (heck, your MEC chair) agreed with Nic as the arbitrator, and agreed to binding arbitration. You don't back out if you don't like the award. That is exactly what happened. Also, you failed to get a joint contract (same pay for same aircraft) prior to your SLI (attempt), which was another big blunder. Your merger, so far, has been the model of "how not to do mergers." Even Bob Crandall stated that in his video he posted on Dec 22 on Youtube. Maybe you should watch it.

What is sad is how unneccessary this is, because you actually agreed to it all beforehand. NIC even gave you warnings, telling your MEC Chair and the negotiators to get off the DOH stance. Your guys didn't, and you were awarded with the NIC award. Your group was able to circumvent it because you had more numbers or members, to vote out ALPA. The APA plus the Westies will send USAPA packing quickly I bet. It's sad, but true. You need to admit what your group has done was underhanded, and then your group needs to accept the award and move on with the larger SLI. It's the only way your possible merger will work, as stated by Bob Crandal himself in the video. Really, go watch it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HA25]

SO Drizzle,

All those Comair FO's on the street who have thousands of hours of SIC on the CRJ will have no chance to get on with Usairways, times are changing my friend, its all about supply and demand and also who you know, and my luck i dont know anyone :-(

It should be about what you bring to the table, especially when you may well be going to the IRO seat (captain) on a 300 passenger $200m jet with in weeks of getting hired. But I'm not in charge of hiring and the union doesn't seem to be worried about it.

 

[General Lee]

SO Drizzle,

All those Comair FO's on the street who have thousands of hours of SIC on the CRJ will have no chance to get on with Usairways, times are changing my friend, its all about supply and demand and also who you know, and my luck i dont know anyone :-(

The "Cream of the crop", or the guys with tons of PIC, will be picked up first by AA and UAL if they start hiring first. Other airlines who start later may not have as many options. There will come a time eventually when anyone with any jet time (SIC or PIC) will be interviewed. Just keep flying and stay clean with the FAA.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[The Drizzle]

SO Drizzle,

All those Comair FO's on the street who have thousands of hours of SIC on the CRJ will have no chance to get on with Usairways, times are changing my friend, its all about supply and demand and also who you know, and my luck i dont know anyone :-(

Don't get defensive, I'm not the blowhard chastising people for being upset they aren't being selected for an interview. My class at airways had one FO without any PIC and one guy who never got off of high mins.

 

[Monster Buck]

Yes I am. I have my own business to help with the bills. Almost everyone I fly with has a side business.

[I am a major airline pilot, almost all of us US Air pilots work two jobs to pay the bills].......unbucking believable. AA pilots beware. This is poison.

 

[Scoot 11]

Yes I am. I have my own business to help with the bills. Almost everyone I fly with has a side business.

Well, geez, thanks for continuing to bring down the industry. But at least you got the satisfaction of working 2 jobs to make a living. How Mesa(ish) if you!

 

[Turtle21]

Anyone who relies only on the airline biz for their sole source of income has their head in the sand or expects/has a large inheritance.

 

[dollacrackho]

Well, geez, thanks for continuing to bring down the industry. But at least you got the satisfaction of working 2 jobs to make a living. How Mesa(ish) if you!

Didn't you know this career is hobby now?

 

[The Drizzle]

Anyone who relies only on the airline biz for their sole source of income has their head in the sand or expects/has a large inheritance.

Maybe so, but that sure as hell shouldn't be a reason to be proud or defensive of the worst wages out there.

 

[HA25]

Anyone who relies only on the airline biz for their sole source of income has their head in the sand or expects/has a large inheritance.

I've been very fortunate to make money outside aviation and also in Apple stock which I've been a fan of since the early 90's but that has absolutely no effect on what I feel is the value of the time I provide my employer when I'm at work. I expect to be properly compensated for this time irrespective of what I make on the outside.

 

[Scoot 11]

Anyone who relies only on the airline biz for their sole source of income has their head in the sand or expects/has a large inheritance.

Well, when you're only being paid a few more dollars an hr than what a Republic pilot makes, I'd have a second job too.... Why don't you guys get your act together and stop being a drag on this industry.

 

[charlie2]

Well, when you're only being paid a few more dollars an hr than what a Republic pilot makes, I'd have a second job too.... Why don't you guys get your act together and stop being a drag on this industry.

So you are going to put your families welfare in the hands of your CEO? Good luck with that.

 

[Scoot 11]

So you are going to put your families welfare in the hands of your CEO? Good luck with that.

You could make that case in ANY industry. Are you going to work yourself to death then? Because thats whats happening over there. Do your 320/737 captainslike making less than a 4th yr southwest f/o?

 

[Monster Buck]

Anyone who relies only on the airline biz for their sole source of income has their head in the sand or expects/has a large inheritance.

wrong.......

 

[Turtle21]

AMR is 100th airline bankruptcy since 1990

wrong.......

Overall, since airline deregulation in the late 1970s, airlines have filed for bankruptcy at least 189 times...

Since 9/11, airlines have filed for bankruptcy at least 40 times...

 

[Turtle21]

I've been very fortunate to make money outside aviation and also in Apple stock which I've been a fan of since the early 90's but that has absolutely no effect on what I feel is the value of the time I provide my employer when I'm at work. I expect to be properly compensated for this time irrespective of what I make on the outside.

No pilot disagrees with that. And every pilot group, given the same circumstances, would end up doing the exact same thing. Pilots are just people and no pilot group is any different than another.

Its just like when a pilot is caught up in circumstances that result in a Class A mishap... mature pilots don't mouth off about how the outcome would have been different if they were the ones in the cockpit. Only fools go there.

 

[charlie2]

You could make that case in ANY industry. Are you going to work yourself to death then? Because thats whats happening over there. Do your 320/737 captainslike making less than a 4th yr southwest f/o?

Even if my pay rate was more than SW I would still keep my five other sources of income because I don't trust my management or other pilots. I SAP down to minimums every month so no I'm not working myself to death.

 

[General Lee]

Even if my pay rate was more than SW I would still keep my five other sources of income because I don't trust my management or other pilots. I SAP down to minimums every month so no I'm not working myself to death.

Let me guess? Your nickname at your other 5 jobs is "Magic Mike...." Riiiiiight.


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[charlie2]

[I am a major airline pilot, almost all of us US Air pilots work two jobs to pay the bills].......unbucking believable. AA pilots beware. This is poison.

Two? Most of the pilots I fly with have numerous "pipelines" of income because they are smart and hard working type A people. I really enjoy my other endeavors. You would be surprised at what the pilots I fly with do, from consulting, owning a vinyard, construction, owning commercial property (like me), supervising in a family owned biz and many more. We have a lot of time off in this biz so we take advantage of it and make stuff. I bet there are many AA pilots who do other things as well so they don't need to "beware". When I'm in cruise for a four hour flight I don't read the AIM to the other piot. I know it already and when I fly with another business owner it is really fun to compare notes. I guess you sit there and talk about FAR's?

 

[HA25]

Two? Most of the pilots I fly with have numerous "pipelines" of income because they are smart and hard working type A people. I really enjoy my other endeavors. You would be surprised at what the pilots I fly with do, from consulting, owning a vinyard, construction, owning commercial property (like me), supervising in a family owned biz and many more. We have a lot of time off in this biz so we take advantage of it and make stuff. I bet there are many AA pilots who do other things as well so they don't need to "beware". When I'm in cruise for a four hour flight I don't read the AIM to the other piot. I know it already and when I fly with another business owner it is really fun to compare notes. I guess you sit there and talk about FAR's?

and let me guess you all watch Fox News and you all want to cut taxes further on the top 1%? I think I'm beginning to understand you better now.

 

[charlie2]

Let me guess? Your nickname at your other 5 jobs is "Magic Mike...." Riiiiiight.


Bye Bye----General Lee

Hi Field Narshall. They really aren't jobs. I own the business's and I can run them from the great hotels I get to spend time in and even while pax are boarding I will answer the phone. I'm a little surprised by the responses to my post. Are you really against a pilot having a side biz? What if I lose my medical? I'm prepared for that.

 

[charlie2]

and let me guess you all watch Fox News and you all want to cut taxes further on the top 1%? I think I'm beginning to understand you better now.

I'm not tracking here...what? I read the Washington Post and the Washington Times and I don't vote party lines. I'm an American and by definition hate any taxes so ya cut 'em!

 

[HA25]

Hi Field Narshall. They really aren't jobs. I own the business's and I can run them from the great hotels I get to spend time in and even while pax are boarding I will answer the phone. I'm a little surprised by the responses to my post. Are you really against a pilot having a side biz? What if I lose my medical? I'm prepared for that.

I have a strip mall and a stock portfolio I trade, doesn't mean I don't expect to get paid industry standard wages at a minimum... you keep your beloved seniority at a cost to the industry since your "pilot group" is making wages below some of the bottom feeder ACMI's I worked for while between real jobs

 

[charlie2]

I have a strip mall and a stock portfolio I trade, doesn't mean I don't expect to get paid industry standard wages at a minimum... you keep your beloved seniority at a cost to the industry since your "pilot group" is making wages below some of the bottom feeder ACMI's I worked for while between real jobs

Come on Mam I'm a line pilot with virtually no influence in the union. If you think I do then you must think you have a lot of powere so why don't you just change everything right now and make it all OK or are you just a big talker? Go on change it all or are you a line pilot like me? I have only one ...ONE vote how many do you have? This airline being run by an ex-con has a few hundred pilots...actually I think it's more than that so my one vote doesn't change things that much. I don't owe you anything so don't think I'll vote for a contract that has a slightly higher rate but worse work rules. Contracts have a little more in them then pay rates youmust be new.

 

[Turtle21]

I have a strip mall and a stock portfolio I trade, doesn't mean I don't expect to get paid industry standard wages at a minimum... you keep your beloved seniority at a cost to the industry since your "pilot group" is making wages below some of the bottom feeder ACMI's I worked for while between real jobs

Oh give it a rest. You would do the same thing if your lousy union stood by and left you hanging in the wind. And repeatedly proposing that pay raises are available for a forfeiture of seniority is ignorant--they aren't. ALPA decided years ago to pit pilot groups against each other at the expense of each other---name an industry were union members perform the same job but can make less than $10k to more than $250k... For the same skill.

Pilots are gonna bitch at each other. It's systemic to the game ALPA chose. Whatever, drool over every new ALPA magazine or spend time building other streams of income. It's your choice. :lol: