good things at Avantair

[ce750drvr]

I generally try to avoid comment on topics such as this, but I've been following, and a couple of observations leap to mind.

One is that both sides, if indeed clear sides exist, are apparently passionate about their positions. I suspect a fair amount of disinformation is being bantied about by both camps. Clearly from the posts, some appear to be from management, others from line pilots, and some aren't clear about either side, and appear to jump back and forth.

Something that occurs to me as I read this is that a number of posts have referred to recent firings. If indeed these firings have been connected with union issues, or disparagement issues, or whatever the case may be, then those who fly for the company might be behooven to exercise a lot of caution in what they post. Let me assure you, I'm not management for your company, and I'm definitely not associated with ANY union...but we've seen the "unmasking" or characters on this board before. Management from this dispute is reading these posts, and apparently making them...if they're firing people who are suspected to be part of the process, then posting here is probably a good way to become a target.

Others have been identified and found out here before. Crikey, it wasn't long ago I was dealing with threats off the board from board members who stepped over the line, and I know others who have experienced the same. The point is that discovering the identity of posters here isn't rocket science, and if management is going to take the tack they have, then don't give them ammunition.

I know it may make you feel good to speak out, but are you accomplishing anything here other than putting yourself in jeopardy? If indeed the posters here claiming to be management are who they say they are, then you're only angering them, without gaining any ground for yourselves...and in some quarters, that's what we call a loss. Cut your losses and don't provoke without something to back yourselves up...just an observation.

My second thought is more philosophical, but it regards the issues of union dues and union boss salaries. I have no idea what a union boss, manager, or whomever makes. Nor do I care. I've read a number of posters here by poeple who are apparently bystanders, interested because they've had their own labor-management disputes. None of them seem concerned about their union dues and where they go, because they have achieved the results they desired.

I suppose I might not care where the dues go either, if the results are what one expects. After all, I pay a lot of money to a doctor, and I get healed. I don't care if he buys a boat or a car, or spends it on a prostitute...I am interested in what he does for me. I had a dentist with a very big house and toys. He treated me well, fixed my teeth, and it was for that service he got paid. What he did with the money wasn't particularly important to me, and it seems that those who concern themselves with where their dues are going are missing the point. Perhaps that's an issue to take up with the union directly, but only if the results aren't worth it.

From what I can see here, everybody has an equal say as to w(h)eather they will accept or reject what management offers, what a union offers, what other pilots have to say, and how it all fits with their goals. I suppose I don't really understand the politics. I must assume that all the players here are adults who can think for themselves. The impassioned pleas and threats, information and disinformation...surely all the players can see with their own two eyes and make up their own minds?

Carry on. It's entertaining, to say the least.

Bravo avbug. Excellent post.

 

[gunfyter]

AvBug is right about finding out who the posters are.


Yes it is a good post... but if you do a search for his posts you will find them to be among the best posts made on this entire message board. A lot of reading though with 4400+ posts.

 

[Grizz]

After NetJet wife and the other brain washed teamster reps refused to answer my question

I've so far refused to answer your question because quite honestly you really aren't worth the time. I believe we currently have two of the members of the Executive Board on Union leave. They are being paid by the local exactly what they would earn as a line pilot. Nothing more and quite honestly - probably a lot less because of overtime and extended days.

 

[widespreadpanic]

Lets see what happens next week who knows maybe our salaries will get increased and we will be happy.

It is not all about the money P180. Money is a band aid on a broken leg.
Don't get me wrong, we need to be paid a decent wage for what we do but we also need respect from the upper management.

WP

 

[cornfed]

It is not all about the money P180. Money is a band aid on a broken leg.
Don't get me wrong, we need to be paid a decent wage for what we do but we also need respect from the upper management.

WP

AMEN BROTHER!

 

[Diesel]

Personally i don't think we should involve 1108 into Avantar. Just another fly by night 135 operator that has no real rules and regulations that it follows.

Too small to unionize.

 

[corpflunkie]

Dizzel,
So tell me, how many pilots does a company need to have before it's considered big enough. There are about 100 pilots here now, and they plan on doubling that in '06. Although I cannot totally disagree with you on your first point, I wouldn't call this company fly by night. I've been there less than 6months, but in that short time I've seen areas with LOTS of room for improvement. Scheduling and pilot svcs being one, pay another.

 

[Diesel]

Just because you vote in a union things will not change. If anythign they will change for the worst in the short term because the company will use the line "we'd love to pay you but the union won't let us.."

I don't believe that avantair has enough pilots or the motivation to change. The pilots on here are few and far between and they are definetly vocal but not everyone is willing to raise their voice.

There is just not enough angry pilots. Most are just willing to cruise along hoping for something better to find them.

 

[netjetwife]

WSP, that's a lot of sound advice in a short post!
Strong work rules, which come from an insistence to be treated like professionals, will protect you from exploitation. It's a fact of life. If you act like a doormat, you shouldn't be surprised when they walk all over you.

I say that you find out what the motivation level is by passing out the cards. If enough are returned, then they have proven that they're motivated. Those that were most vocal and already out front are prime candidates to lead the others. How many pilots were at NJ when they first unionized? Why isn't 100 enough? Far better to start off as a union and get a fair share of the pie as the company grows --isn't it? Who would wish the same problems that NJ had under 284 on their frac peers? Give Avantair the tools they need (guidance) and let them build their own union. All the talk of brotherhood is nothing more than lip service if you can't encourage one another to stand up for pilots' rights. If there are standards industry wide, then no frac company can afford to underpay its FOs. If you turn your back on the smaller companies, won't NJ just use their starting wages to justify their own?

 

[XPGuy]

Alot smaller pilot groups than Avantair have unionized in the past. There is no "size minimum" in the RLA that I can find. They have the RIGHT to Unionize... the smaller the group, the easier to get the majority.