I just want to say I have been working at Avantair for over 1.5 years. I have flown with the two pilots in question and will not disparage them. This is a great place to work. Hopefully many pilots will participate in the pilot phone call next week. Of course we could listen to the pro union banter on this website and spend the next three years negotiating a collective bargaining agreement. What are Union officials driving these days off their new found NJ riches? I choice to believe in CM. I know for a fact he has been presenting issues we have to management and we will see if management addresses them. I remain hopeful. Sending in cards means three maybe four years of no increases and hostility. Lets be smart lets make our own choices we all know this website is owned by the teamsters. They will probably pull this thread as they have been known to do when someone has a differing point of view. Please don't turn this into a teamsters forum for Netjet wife and others you all can stick to Netjets and go away. This forum will be used for Avantair pilots to address concerns in a rational way. It starts next week.
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piaggiop180
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I couldn't agree more. I know for a fact ss has been working with cm for over a month on salary and benefit increases and there is more to come. My card will gather dust while I wait and see what happens. Let's be vocal next week and see if the new owner responds. I also agree NJ Pilots stay off this site. We will handle this on our own. Sorry that the two pilots were fired but lets be real we all flew with them and they were the two most negative people I have ever meet.
Grizz
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piaggiop180
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so typical. Differing point of view means we are management. You don't even work for avantair and your position is transparent. Are you just another teamster plant? The truth is I will send in my card if it doesn't get worked out. This is my seventh aviation job. I have worked for union shops. This stuff makes me want to have no part of the teamsters. We have a new owner and I think we should at least give him a chance.
Well here is why the union cards need to get sent in:
Pay was an issue and I am happy to see that it is being adressed.
Getting 10 hours of rest without 35 phone calls from scheduling.
Getting a Crew Meal without an act of Congress.
Being treated like a human being. Everyone and I mean everyone in managment is under the attitude that we are all crying babies.
Having a true set schedule not one that is up for interpretation
Flight Following even with all their technology not having a clue where in the US you are from one minute to the next.
A set vacation schedule
What if I get sick? Who knows there is no policy. Sick time!
As a PIC being trusted to flight plan accordingly. Not having to call CM to approve a fuel stop.
An end to the hostility between everyone. Managment, scheduling, and the pilots. It all flows downhill and we get the worst of it.
These are just a few of the concerns out there and I am sure more will be added.
I am going to stay at Avantair and I like the company so dont say I am trying to disparage the company.
The union will give us a mediator between managment and the pilots.
I find it funny Jolimon that you said we will have to wait 3 years before we get a pay deal through the union when it looks like one is coming before the union cards even get a chance to be sent in. Hell the FO's already got one.
Sounds like you guys are running scared to me.
Too late for damage control now
Pay was an issue and I am happy to see that it is being adressed.
Getting 10 hours of rest without 35 phone calls from scheduling.
Getting a Crew Meal without an act of Congress.
Being treated like a human being. Everyone and I mean everyone in managment is under the attitude that we are all crying babies.
Having a true set schedule not one that is up for interpretation
Flight Following even with all their technology not having a clue where in the US you are from one minute to the next.
A set vacation schedule
What if I get sick? Who knows there is no policy. Sick time!
As a PIC being trusted to flight plan accordingly. Not having to call CM to approve a fuel stop.
An end to the hostility between everyone. Managment, scheduling, and the pilots. It all flows downhill and we get the worst of it.
These are just a few of the concerns out there and I am sure more will be added.
I am going to stay at Avantair and I like the company so dont say I am trying to disparage the company.
The union will give us a mediator between managment and the pilots.
I find it funny Jolimon that you said we will have to wait 3 years before we get a pay deal through the union when it looks like one is coming before the union cards even get a chance to be sent in. Hell the FO's already got one.
Sounds like you guys are running scared to me.
Too late for damage control now
P180puke
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Make no mistake, the success of this company has been soley on the backs of the pilots and a well desirable plane......oh yea, and investors that are willing to pump money into it. I'd honestly like to believe that the recent pay increase was not an after thought. But notice that the only other time that we had an increase in compensation was the last union scare last year. That's when they finally decided that maybe they should start paying pilots overtime and come up with a schedule. C'mon, it's too coincidental to believe. I have nothing against CM and do believe that he has the best intentions. So far, I have nothing against the new owner, even if his wife needs to learn some manners. As long as SS and KM are in the drivers seat, you'll always have to expect an ulterior motive.
Congratulate eachother on our future pay increase (of which we still have no number......heck, they've only had a couple of days to come up with a plan), but lets not forget those that were not afraid to stir the pot and call it like it is so that we may benefit.
piaggiop180, you say they were negative pilots, yet I'm sure you're not gonna b!tch about your pockets being fatter now due to actions of those with some gonads.....and don't try to tell me "they were going to do it anyway".
Congratulate eachother on our future pay increase (of which we still have no number......heck, they've only had a couple of days to come up with a plan), but lets not forget those that were not afraid to stir the pot and call it like it is so that we may benefit.
piaggiop180, you say they were negative pilots, yet I'm sure you're not gonna b!tch about your pockets being fatter now due to actions of those with some gonads.....and don't try to tell me "they were going to do it anyway".
Words of wisdom from the Teamsters!
So many sound so familiar!
This is what managers often say when workers form a union:
Management: “A union is a third party that will come between us.”
Fact: Our union is a democratic, member-run organization. When you form a union, you’ll work together to govern your own organization. And every contract will be reviewed and approved by a majority of the employees where you work.
Management: “The union will make you go on strike.”
Fact: Strikes are a rare last resort in contract negotiations—more than 95 percent of Teamster contracts are negotiated without a strike. And no strike will happen unless a majority of workers vote to call one.
Management: “If you form a union, you risk losing the benefits and pay raises you already have.”
Fact: It is illegal for a company to freeze or cut previously scheduled raises to discourage you from forming a union. Once you’re organized, you’ll lock in our current wages and benefits and then negotiate improvements from there. All of you will get an opportunity to review your proposed contract before you vote to approve it. Obviously, you’re not going to approve a contract that cuts our wages or benefits.
Management: “The union just wants your dues money.”
Fact: As newly organized Teamsters, you won’t pay dues until you’ve negotiated and voted to approve your first contract—and decided for yourselves whether it’s worth it. Every serious organization—churches, clubs, sporting leagues, and similar organizations—has to have some kind of funding, and unions are no different. Dues pay for the costs of having an organization—contract negotiations, grievances and arbitrations, training for members, legal fees, and other things so no one has to go it alone.
Management: “With a union, you won’t be allowed to talk to your supervisor—you’ll have to go through the union.”
Fact: Teamsters have found that having a union strengthens communication between employees and supervisors. Direct relationships with immediate supervisors continue and you can negotiate to retain any good policy and procedures already in place. The advantage of joining together in a union is that you’re able to make your voices heard at the upper levels of management, where key decisions are made.
Management: “The improvements we’re willing to make right now show that you don’t need a union.”
Fact: It’s great that management is responding to your concerns. It shows that when you join together, your voices are heard. By forming a union, you can make sure this progress is not just short term—you’ll build an ongoing dialogue with management on all your issues. You'll also have peace of mind with a union—since the improvements you agree on will be guaranteed in your union contract.
Keep in mind that it’s normal for some tension to arise when workers start to build a union. But the tension is temporary. After you vote to form a union, management gets used to the idea of you having a voice on the job.
No matter what management says, stay focused on your shared goals—to make your workplace the best possible place to work.
So many sound so familiar!
This is what managers often say when workers form a union:
Management: “A union is a third party that will come between us.”
Fact: Our union is a democratic, member-run organization. When you form a union, you’ll work together to govern your own organization. And every contract will be reviewed and approved by a majority of the employees where you work.
Management: “The union will make you go on strike.”
Fact: Strikes are a rare last resort in contract negotiations—more than 95 percent of Teamster contracts are negotiated without a strike. And no strike will happen unless a majority of workers vote to call one.
Management: “If you form a union, you risk losing the benefits and pay raises you already have.”
Fact: It is illegal for a company to freeze or cut previously scheduled raises to discourage you from forming a union. Once you’re organized, you’ll lock in our current wages and benefits and then negotiate improvements from there. All of you will get an opportunity to review your proposed contract before you vote to approve it. Obviously, you’re not going to approve a contract that cuts our wages or benefits.
Management: “The union just wants your dues money.”
Fact: As newly organized Teamsters, you won’t pay dues until you’ve negotiated and voted to approve your first contract—and decided for yourselves whether it’s worth it. Every serious organization—churches, clubs, sporting leagues, and similar organizations—has to have some kind of funding, and unions are no different. Dues pay for the costs of having an organization—contract negotiations, grievances and arbitrations, training for members, legal fees, and other things so no one has to go it alone.
Management: “With a union, you won’t be allowed to talk to your supervisor—you’ll have to go through the union.”
Fact: Teamsters have found that having a union strengthens communication between employees and supervisors. Direct relationships with immediate supervisors continue and you can negotiate to retain any good policy and procedures already in place. The advantage of joining together in a union is that you’re able to make your voices heard at the upper levels of management, where key decisions are made.
Management: “The improvements we’re willing to make right now show that you don’t need a union.”
Fact: It’s great that management is responding to your concerns. It shows that when you join together, your voices are heard. By forming a union, you can make sure this progress is not just short term—you’ll build an ongoing dialogue with management on all your issues. You'll also have peace of mind with a union—since the improvements you agree on will be guaranteed in your union contract.
Keep in mind that it’s normal for some tension to arise when workers start to build a union. But the tension is temporary. After you vote to form a union, management gets used to the idea of you having a voice on the job.
No matter what management says, stay focused on your shared goals—to make your workplace the best possible place to work.
piaggiop180
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I called and spoke to cm today. they have been working the pay issues since the new owner took over. (at least two months) Is there a reason I should't believe what he tells me? He is not known as someone who is distrustfull. Unions are not the only answer they have done some pretty shady thing themselves.
piaggiop180 said:
Here is one thing you have to remember. Just because you send in your card doesnt mean you have to vote yes for the union when it comes time to vote. Send in your card and if CM and SS do us right then it is up to you to vote yes or no for the union. Sending in your card gives us a voice and gives us an option.
Cornfed, have you not noticed the consultants that have been working here for the last three months. They are here to improve the program for owners and employees. You should talk directly to them, you will find that a lot of the things that you are complaing about are already being addressed. They mentioned that the pay increases were coming over a month ago. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking the cards had anything to do with it. No one is saying it is perfect, but I see a lot of things going on to make it that way.
piaggiop180
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well we now know cornfed is a teamster plant. Did you just cut and paste that from the teamster union brain washing guide?
As a side note the guy who started the board died tragically and this board in no way represents his ideals. It has changed dramatically since he died. Now it is nothing more than a teamster solicitation site. We at Avantair are smarter than that we will make up our own minds. Go away you probably don't even know what a p180 is.
As a side note the guy who started the board died tragically and this board in no way represents his ideals. It has changed dramatically since he died. Now it is nothing more than a teamster solicitation site. We at Avantair are smarter than that we will make up our own minds. Go away you probably don't even know what a p180 is.
P180puke
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- Jan 3, 2006
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piaggiop180 said:
I'd agree with you on that. And for the sake of arguement, it's possible that they have been working on pay issues for months. Al should have sent out a communications letter earlier and said "hey guys, I'm me, I know some things aren't right and I'm gonna make you happier and I'll notify you XX date with a shiny new payscale, you'll love it!".
But instead, nothing's mentioned about that and adding insult to injury the one person/people (depends on who you ask) that has lied to more pilots to keep them around is driving around in a shiny new -expensive- ride. Whadr we supposed to think!?
YOu can only kick a dog so long before it bites....
Half of me says, "okay forget the union and ride this out" (again). Well, that's what we said last time and we still had no policy or respectable schedule or pay. They'll pay us a bonus after 3 years?? What's that?!
piaggiop180
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well said Jolimon. by naming people personally or making statements like " We will just take the pay increases and unionize anyway" that is clearly an attempt to make managment not give us the increases we deserve and force us to join the Teamsters. Hopefully management realizes we have issues and will address them. If not we will see so far I see progress
netjetwife
1 of many w/an opinion
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Jolimon said:
I can't speak for the other 1108 leaders, but my husband drives what he has been driving for the last 10 years--a Ford F150 truck. I do wish you guys could grasp the concept of a L-O-C-A-L like 1108, which is made up only of NJ (so far) pilots fighting hard for NJ pilots and their families. Where do you get your erroneous time line? That is totally unfair to make that assumption, given that you are referring to something that no longer exists--NJ pilots in 284. Let's be fair, here! SU has only just celebrated their one year anniversary and 1108 is even younger! That was an accomplishment to be proud of, given the lost ground that had to be made up. I think the lesson one can learn from your post is that apathy was partially to blame for the lost wages suffered by the NJ pilots. A strong adversary requires a strong union! I encourage the other frac pilots to learn from the mistakes made by the NJ pilots---don't wait so long to get organized. Time is money, as we all know.
Do you honestly believe the drivel you are spouting? Put down the kool-aid and step back for a minute. The are many other issues besides pay that a union would be very helpful for. It would keep you from getting fired for no reason like the last two. (I know both people in question, and have to say, what a crock of crap that was.)
I've seen the email about the phone conference for ideas, and I have two questions for you: 1) Do you honestly think they will listen and make long term changes? 2) What's to keep them from firing you for making suggestions that don't agree with, or feel is "detrimental to the company"?
The answers would be "no" and "nothing."
At least send in the union card, and let it come to a vote. Don't let management bribe or intimidate you with empty promises and threats.
I've seen the email about the phone conference for ideas, and I have two questions for you: 1) Do you honestly think they will listen and make long term changes? 2) What's to keep them from firing you for making suggestions that don't agree with, or feel is "detrimental to the company"?
The answers would be "no" and "nothing."
At least send in the union card, and let it come to a vote. Don't let management bribe or intimidate you with empty promises and threats.
piaggiop180
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piaggiop180
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netjetwife
1 of many w/an opinion
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Jolimon, I must confess to having an emotional reaction to you posted, incorrect data based on an unfair biased against the NJ pilots' union-- Local 1108. I started my post with out finishing (reading) yours first, so I failed to see your expressed wish to an exclusive thread. Nonetheless, after reading all of your post, I am choosing to stand by mine as it is an honest attempt to set the record straight for those who may be unaware of the inaccurate reporting in your own. I will be content to let this me my last post on this thread (unless invited on by other Avantair pilots) as long as you stick to the truth about 1108. Deal? 
piaggiop180
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Netjetwife, the only reason I am on here on this site is to set the facts straight. I want what is best for me, my career, and my family. I am sick of seeing all the lies that get posted on this forum. Avantair, has enjoyed quite a bit of success because of the people that work here; from aircraft detailers to management. It is impossible to look from the outside and have any view of reality.
netjetwife
1 of many w/an opinion
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It would be rude of me not to answer---
Piaggiop180, I actually have no idea about the salary for that position. That IS my point, exactly. We don't identify ourselves strongly with far-flung leaders in a huge umbrella/organizational entity. We just don't. NJ pilots and their families are far too occupied working on L-O-C-A-L issues that face only them. Of the pilots...for the pilots....you get the idea, right?
Thanks. That was the quickest "welcome back" I've received in a long time..
Piaggiop180, I actually have no idea about the salary for that position. That IS my point, exactly. We don't identify ourselves strongly with far-flung leaders in a huge umbrella/organizational entity. We just don't. NJ pilots and their families are far too occupied working on L-O-C-A-L issues that face only them. Of the pilots...for the pilots....you get the idea, right?
Thanks. That was the quickest "welcome back" I've received in a long time..
piaggiop180
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- Jan 2, 2006
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