good things at Avantair

[Diesel]

Personally i don't think we should involve 1108 into Avantar. Just another fly by night 135 operator that has no real rules and regulations that it follows.

Too small to unionize.

 

[corpflunkie]

Dizzel,
So tell me, how many pilots does a company need to have before it's considered big enough. There are about 100 pilots here now, and they plan on doubling that in '06. Although I cannot totally disagree with you on your first point, I wouldn't call this company fly by night. I've been there less than 6months, but in that short time I've seen areas with LOTS of room for improvement. Scheduling and pilot svcs being one, pay another.

 

[Diesel]

Just because you vote in a union things will not change. If anythign they will change for the worst in the short term because the company will use the line "we'd love to pay you but the union won't let us.."

I don't believe that avantair has enough pilots or the motivation to change. The pilots on here are few and far between and they are definetly vocal but not everyone is willing to raise their voice.

There is just not enough angry pilots. Most are just willing to cruise along hoping for something better to find them.

 

[netjetwife]

WSP, that's a lot of sound advice in a short post!
Strong work rules, which come from an insistence to be treated like professionals, will protect you from exploitation. It's a fact of life. If you act like a doormat, you shouldn't be surprised when they walk all over you.

I say that you find out what the motivation level is by passing out the cards. If enough are returned, then they have proven that they're motivated. Those that were most vocal and already out front are prime candidates to lead the others. How many pilots were at NJ when they first unionized? Why isn't 100 enough? Far better to start off as a union and get a fair share of the pie as the company grows --isn't it? Who would wish the same problems that NJ had under 284 on their frac peers? Give Avantair the tools they need (guidance) and let them build their own union. All the talk of brotherhood is nothing more than lip service if you can't encourage one another to stand up for pilots' rights. If there are standards industry wide, then no frac company can afford to underpay its FOs. If you turn your back on the smaller companies, won't NJ just use their starting wages to justify their own?

 

[XPGuy]

Alot smaller pilot groups than Avantair have unionized in the past. There is no "size minimum" in the RLA that I can find. They have the RIGHT to Unionize... the smaller the group, the easier to get the majority.

 

[netjetwife]

Makes sense to me! It's much easier to get a consensus/talk things over when the group is small. In the beginning, it takes a lot of trust among yourselves to organize. I know that the NJ pilots had trouble with company "moles" during their contract battle. Surely it's harder to hide in a smaller group? I know there are a few NJ pilots that worry that the union movement may become a distraction for 1108, but I think that it is better to deal with that IF it comes up rather than have a cold-hearted attitude. Besides, it has been pointed out by some in 1108 that it is in the best interests of all frac pilots to have industry wide standards on work rules and safety issues. Who can disagree with that? To me the concept is simple--right is right--for every pilot.

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS THAT SHOULD BE TREATED/PAID ACCORDINGLY

 

[ce750drvr]

So PIaGgio,

After falsely accusing me of not answering your questions, you still haven't answered my questions from page three. I wonder why?

 

[netjetwife]

OK...I try to stay out of the mud slinging matches..but I must confess, I couldn't help but laugh when I saw those letters highlighted...lol..you guys are so bad! It looks like a mean thing to do to someone's name, but he did bring it upon himself with his boorish behavior, which has brought about a result that should surprise no one. Ce750drvr, I suggest that P.I.G. is off to hunt through another thread for his slop. The NJ group just deals in facts.

 

[piaggiop180]

ce750drvr. What question on page three? Is this some more misinformation and name calling? I am shocked a teamster rep would never do such a thing. Here are some facts the highly over paid union reps at locals who earn upwards of $600,000 all started as you guessed it union stewards. It is the ground floor of the union.

From what I hear in short order we will be paid more than the NetJet pilots who fly Hawker 400's and thats before union dues. That would be pretty funny after all when everyone elses salary goes up you are stuck with your collective bargaining agreement with no way to change it. Who knows maybe our salaries will increase again in the future and we will make even more. Word is management has asked for the pilots help to make the schedule a 7 and 7. Good Things at Avantair. Interesting we are trying to work together not be torn apart. Sometimes it does work.

 

[bluepost]

If your 5 yr guys make 102 (90 base, 8k in hourly OT and 3-6k in holiday pay) on a 7and7 with 3 weeks vacation flying a turboprop....you don't need a union.

3 years ago I "heard" we almost had a TA....

 

[Gpilot800]

From what I hear in short order we will be paid more than the NetJet pilots who fly Hawker 400's and thats before union dues. That would be pretty funny after all when everyone elses salary goes up you are stuck with your collective bargaining agreement with no way to change it.

You have proven time and time again on this thread to have very little knowledge of our contract, union or the history of NJA. I hope they do pay you more than our 400xp guys get. If they do it means you'll be making more than even our Falcon captains make in the first 5 years of seniority. It also means you'll be paid more than any other pilot in this end of the industry.

I agree the wages paid to Falcon PICs, by our contract, are low by industry standard...but our 400XP guys are doing pretty well. Do you really think your company is going to pay what our contract is paying us?

I know you said nothing about Falcons in your post. I stated that for the fact that it will likely prove you understand little about our contract, as proven by the quoted statement above which you made.

Second... you again prove you're lack of intelligence with regard to changes to a CBA. Do you know what an LOA or LOU is?

You really should educate yourself a bit more regarding your career, and the history of this business. If you really want to understand, ask questions. Good luck to you.


-VOLUNTEER NJA UNION REP

 

[Gpilot800]

And regardless of what you get for salary, a portion of it is because of the battle we went through here at NJA... It will benefit all in the industry over time. Union or not...salaries will have to be comparable. Where most other places will fall short, including CS are the benefits, schedule, and security (Union backing) we have obtained.

 

[gunfyter]

.

From what I hear in short order we will be paid more than the NetJet pilots who fly Hawker 400's and thats before union dues. That would be pretty funny after all when everyone elses salary goes up you are stuck with your collective bargaining agreement with no way to change it.

God I hope you're right.

just would show how strong ... STRONG UNION really is ... if we could have a ripple effect like that.

Union dues... the BEST dollars I spend every month. If it gets a couple hundred non union pilots off free school lunch programs and WIC programs.... I am just proud we could help.

 

[netjetwife]

Nice post, Gunfyter! My sentiments exactly!

 

[piaggiop180]

As usual we have the NJ guys and their teamster backing to thank for the sun, the moon and the stars. This stuff is getting so old. I would have been posting more but I was busy flying while the rest of you union reps or stewards or whatever you try to hide behind were riding the desk. Keep it up you just make us see this Union for what it is.