Good bye SL9 Greed- no sir.

[ephull]

Eric-
How do you solve the age issue? Do you think Swapa pilots projected to retire #200, retiring #700 is fair to them? Even SL9 put 300 younger trannies above me... The #'s are there- both sides have them... How do you reconcile AT's short term issues with our long term one's?

There's also the argument that SWA took years longer to get on with ON AVERAGE than AT does. A ridiculous # of pilots here have had your exact interview experience. But they got the type and interviewed 1-2 more times. Do you think the company is going to disrespect their commitment by integrating remotely evenly?
How do you tackle the argument that these were not equal jobs and capitalism should have some benefits to the purchaser?

I don't pretend to have an answer. You have some valid questions, DOH and no fences at perhaps.

 

[waveflyer]

I've stated this before- DOH gives every AT pilot a 300 Swapa pilot cushion from the snapshot bc we hired through OCT '08 whereas AT stopped hiring in April '08. Think that's right?

And DOH doesn't address the fact that if pursuing both airlines at the same time - the SWA job takes on average 3-5 years longer to attain than the AT one- it's simply more competitive bc of the pay, culture, bases etc- leading to the age disparity.

Here's my example- it would not be relevant but for the fact that it's fairly common:
its just my experience- but I've run into a lot of my 70-90,000#'s who've had similar experiences- I turned down AT in 2003 after an Air Inc conference where I spoke to both swa and AT (and Amer West and UPS and Fedex ...etc) I didn't do the interview with AT bc of a conflict and in large part bc of the advice a SWA Capt recruiter gave me to stay at my regional and pad my PIC time- I had about 1500 PT121 TPIC over 3 types at that point- a direct quote "I don't think sitting in the right seat of a larger plane is going to help you much. We always value PIC and leadership roles over the right seat in any aircraft. We hire captains and leaders." He then went on to look at my resume and stated that competitive TPIC mins for civilians are usually higher than what I had, even though I had the mins. So I stayed at my regional. Now I'd already been at a commuter and a legacy before, so I was itching like crazy to get back to Boeing sized jets- but I didn't- I padded my 121TPIC time slugging it out in the ever increasing outsourced world of legacy route structures that I used to fly big jets to. And it worked- I got the job I really wanted in 2007, 3 and a half years after I'd have been in class at AT had I passed their interview. And I passed on the first try. So many of our best pilots have had to interview 2 and 3 times to get on. it's not just civilian pilots- I've flown with several military pilots who have interviewed 2 or more times. The record I've seen is 4. And usually a year before a subsequent interview is offered.

Are those years relevant to a seniority discussion?
Obviously, I feel like they are. SWA set up a process where they could differentiate between those who wanted a job and those who REALLY want to fly for swa.
I just don't see them telling us many times a year how special we are, bragging about how difficult it is to get hired by swa- and then doing a 180 and saying "just kidding" we're integrating you by DOH.

It simply will not happen on even terms.
It's not a 2nd class citizen thing- it's a required humility, a Luke 14:10 thing, a servant mentality when you join this family-
You just don't show up with the lack of perspective ALPA has shown.
SWA buying you is very very good- you don't negotiate on a hard line in this scenario.
JMO-
Y'all are free to do as you will.

 

[dh82dvr]

Life is full of choices wave. You chose to wait and pad your time to get where you wanted. Everyone makes decisions based on the information at hand and their own personal circumstance. Just because it is different to yours doesn't mean you are any better, more determined or any other reason that may be thrown around. There is a bucket of pain that has to be shared around. I expect that AT will wear a lot but it should not be all. Whats the difference between retiring 200 or 700. Surely QOL is about the same? Pay will be the same?

 

[Beechdriver32]

Whats the difference between retiring 200 or 700. Surely QOL is about the same? Pay will be the same?

DH82dvr-

Use the same thought process and expand on it. Your QOL would have gone through the roof, you just don't know it because ALPA didn't explain it to you. You are simply ignorant of what SWA is all about. Not a slam, but if and when you get here you will see what I mean.

SWA is NOT AT. None you seem to see that. Your MEC really just simply sold you.

And Eric-
Thank you for your time and energy in writing what you did. As a 9 year SWA FO who would have been your FO for the next 10 years, I personally thank you. Most of us regular line folks would have voted this in knowing that it was good overall for the company. I really was unhappy with SL9, and thought you were getting way too many protections. Now, if you are representative of your group, I KNOW that is the case. You have simply emboldened my thoughts on your group. And thats just too bad.

I wish no ill on you and yours, but the olive branch is wilting.

If it's only about QOL and not money, why did any AT guys ever upgrade?

Be real and we might have a real conversation.

BD32

 

[St. Nic]

The arbitrators in the DL/NWA SLI did not look at age of the group. The NWA group had far more senior pilots that were "supposedly" ready to retire at any moment after the SLI (they did not, they are going close to 65), and the 3 arbitrators didn't seem to care. Just because the Airtran guys are overall younger, doesn't mean you should get a bump in seniority, and I doubt your eventual arbitration will show that.

You are offensive, plane and simple.

 

[DougCorp-9]

You want to be considered an equal?

DOH, no fence.

Welcome to SWA.

Deal. DOH and NO fences, restrictions, ect....

 

[tankerhead]

I've stated this before- DOH gives every AT pilot a 300 Swapa pilot cushion from the snapshot bc we hired through OCT '08 whereas AT stopped hiring in April '08. Think that's right?

You DO keep saying this but it's not accurate: AAI hired in 2010 before the announcement. Anyone got a list handy?

 

[carl p]

Deal. DOH and NO fences, restrictions, ect....

X2. Lets get this over with and get to the business of kicking a$$.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

X2. Lets get this over with and get to the business of kicking a$$.

And lock you into Tranny scale for the rest of your time at SWA which you were earning on Sept 26, 2010. You then get any percentage raises that RSW pilots get. You keep your retirement match and RSW keep theirs.

Other details will need to be resolved but this is the bulk of the deal.

Its not about money so this sounds fair. Right?

Alright now. So lets go kick some a$$.

 

[SOVT]

Sorry, I can't resist...

I know there is not a single AT guy who is out to ruin the culture of SWA. We want to be a part of it.

You want to be part of a culture that worships narcissistic behavior. Your mother must be proud.

And no I never applied to Southwest.

 

[GuppyWN]

Deal. DOH and NO fences, restrictions, ect....

No thank you.

Gup

 

[redflyer65]

I see a huge fence for the 717...and possibly one for the AAI 737 too. All to be negotiated by SWAPA.

 

[ephull]

And lock you into Tranny scale for the rest of your time at SWA which you were earning on Sept 26, 2010. You then get any percentage raises that RSW pilots get. You keep your retirement match and RSW keep theirs.

Other details will need to be resolved but this is the bulk of the deal.

Its not about money so this sounds fair. Right?

Alright now. So lets go kick some a$$.

It's fair as long as we only have to fly with AirTran guys.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

It's fair as long as we only have to fly with AirTran guys.

Why? Because an Airtran Captain wouldn't want to fly with an FO making more than them?

 

[Kharma Police]

Why? Because an Airtran Captain wouldn't want to fly with an FO making more than them?

No, because some of you sound like d!cks to fly with. We don't have stupid terms like "Check FO" and "Kernal", everybody pretty much gets along and has a good time.

 

[ephull]

It's going to take more money to put up with the narcissistic behavior.

 

[redflyer65]

Eric,

Flying the line at SW is awesome. Everyone is cool and we all pull on the rope in the same direction. I haven't seen this type of work ethic anywhere. That's part of why everyone is so protective of it. I don't mean that as flame, just trying to explain the day to day here.

RF

 

[ephull]

Eric,

Flying the line at SW is awesome. Everyone is cool and we all pull on the rope in the same direction. I haven't seen this type of work ethic anywhere. That's part of why everyone is so protective of it. I don't mean that as flame, just trying to explain the day to day here.

RF

Yes bud< I am positive it awesome and I look forward to flying with all of you. That last comment was directed at 1 individuall poster only. Now back to the silent majority, golf , beer and the lake and other more important things, Cheers

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

No, because some of you sound like d!cks to fly with. We don't have stupid terms like "Check FO" and "Kernal", everybody pretty much gets along and has a good time.

Yea. I'm sure you are all just wonderful to fly with.

 

[bendover]

The sli would allow every single sw fo to upgrade prior to any airtran fo. So if an airtran pilot was able to hold a capt. slot or perhaps a few months away from upgrade, he now was realistically looking at 12 to 15 years to upgrade. How is this fair? Most people would look at this as an extreme seniority grab.Now the sw side will say you are getting a pay raise, huh? As a junior airtran capt they would make more than a sw fo would, so where is the big windfall again? There wasn't one, only a loss of seniority that would take a decade and a half to recover. Airtran was actively taking on new growth aircraft every couple of months. Approx. 50 new dilivery scheduled over the next few years. SW has stopped airtran diliveries and instead have taken them for themselves so the sw pilots are now benefitting from the merger at the airtran pilots expense. The airtran pilots are looking to be treated fairly and equitably not a whole sale loss of seniority. After all, airtran brings its own planes, slots, cities, and a multi million dollar profitable airline not in bankruptsy or even close to it to the party.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

It's going to take more money to put up with the narcissistic behavior.

Yes bud< I am positive it awesome and I look forward to flying with all of you.

That is a bit manic now. Is it not?

 

[waveflyer]

DOH is a pipe dream -
Your chance to negotiate has passed-
SL9 is the best you'd have got- bow it'll be something else- but negotiating online with people who don't matter is pointless.

 

[redflyer65]

Now the sw side will say you are getting a pay raise, huh? As a junior airtran capt they would make more than a sw fo would.

Ben,

What are you smoking dude? If you would have taken that deal, you would have made 10/hr MORE than the junior AAI CA rates. I'm not sure if you even looked at how we get paid.

On top of that, better medical with less out of pocket, better retirement, better treatment. But that's all behind us. The deal is gone.

So as an AAI FO, after upgrading you would have made less money and been on airport reserve, and still been hammered by the lovely AAI management team. You guys don't get it.

RF

 

[SWA/FO]

They are on the GK pain train. Shocked? We only have been warning them for months and months.. "Fork in the road" moment.

 

[bendover]

ahh once again its all about money with the sw guys. Not a mention of the whole sale seniority grab. just a focus on the money again. If you look at the at capt rates it exceeds the sw fo rates rather quickly. Also at's 11%" contribution B fund is a little better than sw 9.3%"matching contribution" I know there is also a profit sharing plan. But it isn't guaranteed . How can anyone say that going from a 5 month upgrade to a 15 year upgrade is fair? .........cricketts chirping..................................

 

[redflyer65]

Ben,

You guys were making 79/hr as an FO before SW stepped in. That's not even comparible to Regional Captain rates. Are you kidding me?

No crickets. I would be more than happy for you to stay at those payrates and get your 11% off those payrates forever. You do know how that works right? The more you make per year, the 9.3% is MORE money in the end.

I haven't been here very long, but I topped out my 401k in June...16,500. And I continue to get the 9.3 match the rest of the year.

If it's all about seniority for you (and not money), I would expect you would have always been a career AAI FO, and that's cool. To each their own.

This whole SLI is on the same coarse as the Titantic. Good Luck.

RF

 

[redflyer65]

They are on the GK pain train. Shocked?

I am shocked. Maybe I'm naive. These guys are still saying they want it all after Gary throws out a letter stating how this could all change quickly. ALPA follows with a letter that states all is good. Ahhh, okay.

I'm ready to look at all available options. This is crazy.

 

[Kharma Police]

They are on the GK pain train. Shocked? We only have been warning them for months and months.. "Fork in the road" moment.

I disagree, you guys are going to have to man up and find a way to say no to Dad after the arbitrators ruling.


Gary signed, so you guys can whine!

 

[On Your Six]

Eric,

Flying the line at SW is awesome. Everyone is cool and we all pull on the rope in the same direction. I haven't seen this type of work ethic anywhere. That's part of why everyone is so protective of it. I don't mean that as flame, just trying to explain the day to day here.

RF

Will it ever be like that in the future? How about you and your group go "mull around" at management headquarters and jump up and down, hoping that will gain something? Arbitrators don't care if you do that, ya know... The way your group acts now is how you will be judged in the future. Fair is fair, and that doesn't mean 1 for 1, it means not the bottom 60% in your bottom 20%. That really is pushing it, and most would agree to that, maybe arbitrators too.


OYS

 

[Kharma Police]

DOH is a pipe dream -
Your chance to negotiate has passed-
SL9 is the best you'd have got- bow it'll be something else- but negotiating online with people who don't matter is pointless.

DOH is your nightmare, Wave. I can see the veins popping in your forehead with the mention of it. Go back to your high brow long winded quoting of Machiavelli's "The Prince" and re-read Chapter 18.

Hint: it's about keeping your word after signing an agreement.