Good bye SL9 Greed- no sir.

[xjhawk]

Are you the bottom guy that just upgraded a couple weeks ago that would get to be a SWA Captain over the FO's that have been here for 11+ years?

Mighty magnanimous of you sport.

Tell me you are willing to come over as a mid level FO and you will have some credibility. Otherwise it's all bull$hit.

If it goes to arbitration guess what? It will most likely go cat/class and that means that that brand new upgrade that has half your longevity will be very senior to you in the end. Its just the facts of the last couple mergers-dont let your union tell you otherwise. I was dumb to believe the -we will get DOH-its the only fair way that Bloch can decide

 

[redflyer65]

I think it will go to arbitration, and the list will never be merged. Just look at the ALPO response to understand why I say that. Good luck.

RF

 

[ephull]

"But with top payscales of 153/hr and 79/hr for CA and FO's respectively is along way from were the SW pay and QOL"

Correction had to dig out my contract --current book 12/1/10 $163.22 /$100.78/hr 12/1/14 $186.32 /$117.46 ---narrows that $2mil per a little.

 

[yoyoma]

ummm...thats per hour vs per TRIP. 210 an hour at swa vs your 163

 

[becket]

Money comes and goes in aviation. Yes, even to the almighty SWA. A promise of money today doesn't mean crap unless the full amount is deposited in escrow. Something that will never happen. GK is pissed because for the first time in his professional life a group of pilots refused to kiss the ass of SWA.

 

[redflyer65]

Eric,

With all due respect, you would have never had the contract you do right now if it wasn't for SW stepping in. Can you not see that?

These are the kind of statements that make most SW pilots cringe. It's an entitlement way of thinking.

Again, thank you for engaging with your thoughts. We may have to agree to disagree.

RF

 

[redflyer65]

Money comes and goes in aviation. Yes, even to the almighty SWA. A promise of money today doesn't mean crap unless the full amount is deposited in escrow. Something that will never happen. GK is pissed because for the first time in his professional life a group of pilots refused to kiss the ass of SWA.

Mine gets deposited in my 'escrow' every 5th and 20th. Best job I've ever had. Gary has alot to do with that.

RF

 

[yoyoma]

Eric let me ask you a question...

when did you apply at southwest? did you get the interview? did you get turned down? do you still have an app on file?

 

[vv100]

"But with top payscales of 153/hr and 79/hr for CA and FO's respectively is along way from were the SW pay and QOL"

Correction had to dig out my contract --current book 12/1/10 $163.22 /$100.78/hr 12/1/14 $186.32 /$117.46 ---narrows that $2mil per a little.

Convenient of you to use the payscale Southwest helped you get.

Now run the numbers pre announcement.

Yeah I thought so.

 

[ephull]

Maybe , maybe not, we had voted 98% for a strike just prior.
I guess I need to thank SWA for this "gift" too. We thought this current contract had a lot of crappy language in it as well,... It was voted on under duress, kinda like this SLI Agreement would have been. Im being rhetorical. " a little"

Now where's the Ice Cream poster? This is getting way too serious and I need a good laugh.

 

[becket]

Mine gets deposited in my 'escrow' every 5th and 20th. Best job I've ever had. Gary has alot to do with that.

RF

Feel like betting your seniority, QOL, and career on the promise of higher pay 20 years from now? The 5th and the 20th is irrelevant.

 

[ephull]

Eric let me ask you a question...

when did you apply at southwest? did you get the interview? did you get turned down? do you still have an app on file?

Gents; I have nothing to hide , 12 years ago I interviewed, No type. Never applied again. I got the letter after 11 weeks and a SWA drug test, they filled the class with type rated guys. I had a friend in the class. I was a 30 year old DC10 Captain at the time. But apparrently not what they were looking for, for that class.

 

[Andy]

I think it will go to arbitration, and the list will never be merged. Just look at the ALPO response to understand why I say that. Good luck.

RF

GK's balking at mediation; I doubt he'll agree to arbitration. No need if you have separate operating certificates.
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/08/gary-kelly-talks-about-airtran-1.html
Excerpt:

Media: What was your reaction to the ALPA MEC's decision not to send the agreement out to a vote by members?
Kelly: "Well, first of all, I'm appreciative of all the hard work that has gone into a seniority list integration agreement between the Southwest pilots and the AirTran pilots. In fact, it is unprecedented that we actually were able to come to an agreement in principle among the company and the two pilot unions.
"The Southwest pilot union had unanimously approved the deal to send it out for a vote. I was disappointed last week that the ALPA MEC chose not to send it out, in effect rejected that deal.
"So at this point we'll move forward. There is a process agreement in place that allows for mediated sessions and then ultimately binding arbitration if we merge the two airlines. We're going to take a step back and evaluate all of our operations.
"We had a very generous offer economically on the table. So we have pulled that offer. Now, it's just a different environment with the economy and also with very high fuel prices. We'll just consider all options and ultimately we'll do what's best for the Southwest Airlines' culture as well as the Southwest Airlines business."
Media: So the financial sweeteners are no longer on the table? You won't initially participate in mediation?
Kelly: "Correct. Obviously if asked, we'll join the mediated sessions. We can't improve upon what was offered. In fact, at this point I don't feel comfortable, since we don't have a deal, I don't see any reason ... well, we pulled the offer."
Media: What was the annualized cost of what Southwest offered to get the deal?
Kelly: "Well, it was certainly tens of millions of dollars in 2012, and annualized it would obviously be more than that. That's my best estimate off the top of my head."
Media: Does this push back the timetable for getting a single operating certificate that covers both Southwest and AirTran?
Kelly: "No. They're separate issues. All of that will have to be coordinated with the FAA. But in other words, as you well know, this is a multi-month if not multi-year conversion process.
"The target date for the single operating certificate is March 1. Well, we were not going to have one airline at that point, as you guys know. It really has no bearing. What this does is it will slow down the integration process and perhaps change the integration process.
"We were willing to put some money on the table to get an expedited seniority list, and since we have not been able to do that, well, it just gives us an opportunity to reconsider how we want to move forward."

Money comes and goes in aviation. Yes, even to the almighty SWA. A promise of money today doesn't mean crap unless the full amount is deposited in escrow. Something that will never happen. GK is pissed because for the first time in his professional life a group of pilots refused to kiss the ass of SWA.

You need to read up a bit on SWA's acquisition history. This isn't the first pilot group to do that. It hasn't worked in the past so I don't know why people think it'll work this time around. Bond-McCaskill? That doesn't work if there are two operating certificates.
GK is telling everyone that the merger either happens according to his vision or there's no merging.

 

[bigakl]

Part of the problem is people are seeing this merger as apples to apples. AT is nothing but a glorified commuter airline. If I wanted a job there I could have had one 12 years ago directly from the right seat of a turboprop with a 2 year capt upgrade. This is no NWA/Delta merger. 3/4 or the AT pilots would have killed for a SWA job and started on the bottom a year ago. IMHO a 10 year AT capt should start at the bottom of the list at SWA where they belong- just like every other commuter airline capt would

 

[redflyer65]

The 5th and the 20th is irrelevant.

Classic. Thanks for making my point.

RF

 

[yoyoma]

Part of the problem is people are seeing this merger as apples to apples. AT is nothing but a glorified commuter airline. If I wanted a job there I could have had one 12 years ago directly from the right seat of a turboprop with a 2 year capt upgrade. This is no NWA/Delta merger. 3/4 or the AT pilots would have killed for a SWA job and started on the bottom a year ago. IMHO a 10 year AT capt should start at the bottom of the list at SWA where they belong- just like every other commuter airline capt would

dont let airtran pilots hear you say this...they think they all fly 777 for 300k a year

 

[ephull]

Part of the problem is people are seeing this merger as apples to apples. AT is nothing but a glorified commuter airline. If I wanted a job there I could have had one 12 years ago directly from the right seat of a turboprop with a 2 year capt upgrade. This is no NWA/Delta merger. 3/4 or the AT pilots would have killed for a SWA job and started on the bottom a year ago. IMHO a 10 year AT capt should start at the bottom of the list at SWA where they belong- just like every other commuter airline capt would

Oye-I flew my :commuter" from LA to Baltimore the other day. 12 years ago I'd not have thought for a second about sending AT a resume. Things in aviation change and so do the ailrines.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

Gents; I have nothing to hide , 12 years ago I interviewed, No type. Never applied again. I got the letter after 11 weeks and a SWA drug test, they filled the class with type rated guys. I had a friend in the class. I was a 30 year old DC10 Captain at the time. But apparrently not what they were looking for, for that class.

It could have been the drug test. Not that you were doing anything wrong, but back then they wouldn't send you for the drug test unless they wanted to put you in a class.

And it is never about "the" class. Everyone was put in a pool. Some with types, some without. If they filled the class with everyone with a type, well everyone has (Morris exception) always had a type going to class.

Class to class we never had a quota or demographic that was trying to be obtained. The only constant was overall, not class to class, 50% military and 50% civilian.

 

[ephull]

It could have been the drug test. Not that you were doing anything wrong, but back then they wouldn't send you for the drug test unless they wanted to put you in a class.

And it is never about "the" class. Everyone was put in a pool. Some with types, some without. If they filled the class with everyone with a type, well everyone has (Morris exception) always had a type going to class.

Class to class we never had a quota or demographic that was trying to be obtained. The only constant was overall, not class to class, 50% military and 50% civilian.

Damn-- I Knew I should have studied harder for that test!

 

[bigakl]

Oye-I flew my :commuter" from LA to Baltimore the other day. 12 years ago I'd not have thought for a second about sending AT a resume. Things in aviation change and so do the ailrines.

Last time I checked my old commuter airline is also flying coast to coast with their RJ's. What I was stating was facts about AT - but somehow AT guys don't want to admit that