Good bye SL9 Greed- no sir.

[ephull]

Respectfully, my commuter paid me $1105 for the 1 way.

Stay focused or start a new thread.

 

[vv100]

Respectfully, my commuter paid me $1105 for the 1 way.

Stay focused or start a new thread.

And then they took half of it back to pay your health insurance.

Focused indeed.

 

[redflyer65]

Prior to Sept 26th the work rules, QOL, medical payment, and PAY were horrible for a LCC.

Now? Career airline that was completely viable, plenty of orders (which obviously means more growth...except they were low on cash for those orders), and it was a great job. Give me a break guys, really disengenious.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

OK. My airline paid me $3000 to do the same. Except I had to make a thirty minute stop in MCI.

 

[Flash]

OK. My airline paid me $3000 to do the same. Except I had to make a thirty minute stop in MCI.

Oh great. A mine is bigger than yours argument.

I just sat home all week because I'm lazy, so there!

 

[vv100]

Prior to Sept 26th the work rules, QOL, medical payment, and PAY were horrible for a LCC.

Now? Career airline that was completely viable, plenty of orders (which obviously means more growth...except they were low on cash for those orders), and it was a great job. Give me a break guys, really disengenious.

It's like the N. Pelosi School of Utter Bull$hit around here.

Keep repeating a lie over and over and eventually it will become the truth

 

[Fly4$]

i am a junior capt and will get hammered for saying this by my fellow pilots, but yes, i think this is where it should have been to start with. Doh, no fences, no capt protections and let the chips fall where they may. I don't want to be a second class citizen for the rest of my career.

Disclaimer- this is just one humble pilots opinion, so if you don't agree, move on. We didn't get a vote in the current situation.

....
+1

 

[UALX727]

I will chime in also. I have been a captain at AirTran for over 4 years now. If it came down to D.O.H. I'd take that over the last deal. I'd lose my captain seat for awhile...let the SWA senior F.O.'s have it...but gain better global system seniority. That last deal had me keeping my seat but sitting reserve for 12+ years while bouncing from base to base. I'm a 2003 hire at AT fwiw.

 

[FlyinGuy]

We work for SWA now why would they LOL.

But seriously, if your at the bottom of any list and have the op to move up to a better company, better paying career or simply a flying career that fits your life's ambitions better why not. I'd say most FO's that came to AT recently planned on staying.

First, you do not work for SWA yet.

Second, of course your FO's are not talking about leaving. Where in the heck would they be going???? Amway school....

 

[ephull]

And then they took half of it back to pay your health insurance.-

--that's no joke our insurance is the highest I've paid anywhere! We susidize all other employee groups.


OK. My airline paid me $3000 to do the same. Except I had to make a thirty minute stop in MCI.-

-- and that my friends is awesome,

 

[ephull]

I've been a silent observer for a while, time to comment on a few things. I am the bottom 737 AT Captain. I may have had a lot to gain and a lot to lose in the rejected SLI Agreement. That being said -from my perspective I feel a there is a huge injustice in what is “not” being said in these message boards.


(what isn't being said -is the AirTran pilots were welcome aboard if we could accept life at SWA as a 2nd class pilot group, “the clean up crew that would work weekends, holidays and bounce from junior base to junior base for over a decade and most likely a lot longer ”)---the point our MEC made with their no vote was that is not acceptable).




To all those who preach greedy AirTran pilots---it's not about the money it's about quality of life.
What is being said is the Airtran pilots are greedy: rejecting a 2 billion $ incentive over $2 million a piece. Fuzzy math by my calculations. In fact in a few short years if I were to be back in the right seat, It would have been a pay loss. I am still a little curious how placing AT pilots on = pay scale with SWA pilots is a sweetner or incentive but that's how SWA and SWAPA are spinning it.


1st let me pointedly say our MEC did not give us the choice to decide. 2nd I think the additional pay would have been nice. However, I am well aware of what my career expectations were on 9/26/10 -I think all Airtran pilots are,.


If you studied SL9 and other supporting documentation in detail-it was plain to see the loopholes. Loopholes skillfully wrapped into the SLI agreement. The loopholes stacked the deck nicely in SWAPA's favor-and simply handing AT pilots a huge seniority loss for the majority. At the end of the day junior captain retention slots would have been negated , ATL fences would have been negated as the base would have been 40% of all AT pilots remaining displced, a lot of the other protections would have been negated. We were being enticed with money we haven't seen before to quickly rollover and sell out our seniority. I personally would have lost 33%, 51% to 84%.


Gentlemen we are not the greedy pilot group many have labeled us.


A fair and equitable integration is what we desire, we do not desire to harm our future coworkers or their careers.


The AirTran pilot group helped build a lean, profitable airline that offers a superior product. We helped build an airline we can be proud of. One that withstood valuation, judging and scrutiny by the high standards of our new owners . We helped build an airline outside of SWA,FEDEX or UPS that became a top career destination in the industry. We know how to be efficient and are thus competitive, we are a hard working group of professional aviators that do not appreciate being looked down upon. (I think that was partly the point of the MEC vote).


If we end up integrating, I look forward working with all of you in the future.


I personally hope we can put this together quickly and peaceably so we can go out and beat up on our competitors in a down economy like usual! “Together” It may take more giving from both parties.

Have a great night everyone,it's been enlightening.

 

[Fliteidol]

Strategically AT should have ratified as they were first and I`m certain that the guys at SWA would have rejected it on vote anyway. Then organise a spontaneous show of cultural support for the messiah on his steps in Dallas. Brilliant but alas defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory!

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

Oh great. A mine is bigger than yours argument.

I just sat home all week because I'm lazy, so there!

Just pointing out the potential pay disparity. Isn't that the reason for all this drivel?

And I have been home all week too. Not because I'm lazy. Just because I could.

What was the point?

 

[waveflyer]

DING DING DING We have a winner.

The SWA business model is the other factor not mentioned enough. AT assumes our contract, but one of the sticking points is the reduction of ATL bc of our model.
Make no mistake, our model is unique and proven to bring sustainably higher wages than pure hub and spoke. Just as every legacy would argue that widebody flying brings higher wages and greater career expectations, we also bring our SW business model and a much greater percentage of larger airframes.
No arbitration is the same- an arbitrator could get you slightly more- with an equal chance of less. And certainly no economic incentives and the possibility of no integration at all. ALPA's decision has cost SWA $millions- no one liked SL9- but it was ALPA who didn't let it go to a vote, setting a costly example for all our work groups.

That's the selfish part.

 

[Flash]

Just pointing out the potential pay disparity. Isn't that the reason for all this drivel?

And I have been home all week too. Not because I'm lazy. Just because I could.

What was the point?

Just making a generalization, but it seems that the common theme is the windfall in pay that AT pilots will/would receive. I like my time at home and bid long call, 12 hour reserve to maximize that. So giving up qol for money to me is a no go. Just wanted to let you know the point where some of us are coming from. I'm probably a rarity though.

 

[CF34-3B1]

Just making a generalization, but it seems that the common theme is the windfall in pay that AT pilots will/would receive. I like my time at home and bid long call, 12 hour reserve to maximize that. So giving up qol for money to me is a no go. Just wanted to let you know the point where some of us are coming from. I'm probably a rarity though.

SWA doesn't have long call reserve, so you would be giving that up no matter where you landed on the seniority list.

And between our scheduling rules and ELITT, I would think your QOL would have gone up vs. an A/T schedule.

 

[stalker]

I am just curious why the most junior captain at airtran says he is holding out for quality of life. Do the most junior at airtran get the best schedules or something? The difference between most junior captain at airtran and his counterpart at swa is about 100k. What quality of life is there at airtran on the bottom of the list?

 

[General Lee]

I am just curious why the most junior captain at airtran says he is holding out for quality of life. Do the most junior at airtran get the best schedules or something? The difference between most junior captain at airtran and his counterpart at swa is about 100k. What quality of life is there at airtran on the bottom of the list?

If you can't see your kids soccer games for the next 10 years, does it matter? Southwest pilots obviously wanted QOL, they tried to put the bottom 60% (which is huge) into the BOTTOM 20% at SWA, which is ridiculous to everyone other than Southwest pilots. I think that means the Southwest pilots favor QOL. The arbitrator may not care about that, though.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[puddlejumper101]

Just making a generalization, but it seems that the common theme is the windfall in pay that AT pilots will/would receive. I like my time at home and bid long call, 12 hour reserve to maximize that. So giving up qol for money to me is a no go. Just wanted to let you know the point where some of us are coming from. I'm probably a rarity though.

I think there was also not enough education going on. I bet the last guy in our seniority list has really good QOL, definately much better than your last person on your list. In fact, without understanding the system there is no way to compare. Dude my QOL has been awesome since day one. I know plenty of people at AT, and there is no comparison. Everyone from 1 to 6000 has a good chance at good, if not, great QOL. If you guys had been educated properly then the gap you all keep talking about in QOL would have been smaller. Assumptions fill the hole when things are not known, and it is filled with what you do know. Being at the bottom of AT getting handed SH&$ sandwiches by Forano is what you guys know. If That's what perceptions and assumptions are built around, no wonder you guys turned SL-9 down.

I was not happy with SL-9 (most of us weren't), and neither were you guys. That probably means it was somewhat ok. Everyone didn't like it. Isn't that what a fair intergration brings???

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

Just making a generalization, but it seems that the common theme is the windfall in pay that AT pilots will/would receive. I like my time at home and bid long call, 12 hour reserve to maximize that. So giving up qol for money to me is a no go. Just wanted to let you know the point where some of us are coming from. I'm probably a rarity though.

Lazy pilots? Rarity? Come on....

Come on over, I have plenty of beer, wine, tequila, etc.