Good bye SL9 Greed- no sir.

[redflyer65]

Will it ever be like that in the future? How about you and your group go "mull around" at management headquarters and jump up and down, hoping that will gain something? Arbitrators don't care if you do that, ya know... The way your group acts now is how you will be judged in the future. Fair is fair, and that doesn't mean 1 for 1, it means not the bottom 60% in your bottom 20%. That really is pushing it, and most would agree to that, maybe arbitrators too.


OYS

OYS,

The next offer (from Gary) is going to be less. You get that right? You also understand that we now control all other work rules(fences, pay, etc) if this does go to arbitration and IF Gary decides to merge the companies. You get that too, right? I don't really see it going that far, the AAI ALPA guys will burn the lottery ticket.

 

[Kharma Police]

OYS,

The next offer (from Gary) is going to be less. You get that right? You also understand that we now control all other work rules(fences, pay, etc) if this does go to arbitration and IF Gary decides to merge the companies. You get that too, right? I don't really see it going that far, the AAI ALPA guys will burn the lottery ticket.

At this point you better hope that we reach a settlement in mediation and so does Gary. You don't want to go to Arby's, it will give you a stomach ache after you leave.

 

[redflyer65]

Dude, Arby is so lopsided it's insane. I love how you guys try to make this a merger of equals. Not even close.

 

[Kharma Police]

Dude, Arby is so lopsided it's insane. I love how you guys try to make this a merger of equals. Not even close.

Then you and Gary should have nothing to fear.

 

[puddlejumper101]

Then you and Gary should have nothing to fear.

what if you guys get a worse deal in Arby? You know that arbitrators don't have anything to do with money. So what if AAI walks out of there with SL9 type of seniority,or worse (plus or minus a few), and no $$$? Then what? You guys are convinced the arbitrators will see it your way, what if they don't? Also, nowhere does it say Gary has to accept the terms of arbitration. I think your fab-7 are gambling with your career. I still can't get over that, your MEC hijacked this thing. I thought unions were supposed to be UNIONS (as in united). 7 pilots decided that the other 1693 opinions and votes were useless. If the fab 7 did not like what they saw then don't recommend it, BUT SEND IT OUT FOR A VOTE, with an explanation as to why each and every single one of those 7 individuals did not recommend it. Also, that would allow the other 1693 pilots to educate themselves and vote on their OWN futures. Since when did ALPA become a dictatorship?

The way I see it is as follows, you guys are renting from a crappy landlord, he agrees to sell the house you live in to a new landlord. The new landlord has big plans, but agrees to let you stay in the house until you can move to a much better property down the street. He is even willing to cover the moving costs, but somehow the tenants (ALPA AT) start demanding things from the new landlord. Next thing you know, the tenant is demanding to be moved to a better location, all expenses covered and sleep in the bedroom of the tenant down the street ( SWAPA), and they can sleep somewhere else. ALPA wants the bed in the master bedroom and nothing less. There comes a point when the new landlord goes, the hell with this tenant. I own this house not them. That's where we are at, SWPA is just another tenant down the street. Right now this is between you and the landlord. So even if he lets you guys move in, how badly is the well poisoned? We shall see.

 

[Kharma Police]

what if you guys get a worse deal in Arby? You know that arbitrators don't have anything to do with money. So what if AAI walks out of there with SL9 type of seniority,or worse (plus or minus a few), and no $$$? Then what? You guys are convinced the arbitrators will see it your way, what if they don't? Also, nowhere does it say Gary has to accept the terms of arbitration. I think your fab-7 are gambling with your career. I still can't get over that, your MEC hijacked this thing. I thought unions were supposed to be UNIONS (as in united). 7 pilots decided that the other 1693 opinions and votes were useless. If the fab 7 did not like what they saw then don't recommend it, BUT SEND IT OUT FOR A VOTE, with an explanation as to why each and every single one of those 7 individuals did not recommend it. Also, that would allow the other 1693 pilots to educate themselves and vote on their OWN futures. Since when did ALPA become a dictatorship?

I don't see how an arbitrator can come up with a list that is any worse but if they do, we accept the decision and move on. I agree with you, the members had a right to vote. However, it doesn't matter, Gary already stated for some strange reason other than to instill fear, SL-9 is in the trash.

 

[redflyer65]

Also, nowhere does it say Gary has to accept the terms of arbitration

Well stated. I see it headed down this road.

What's up with the AAI MEC coming to Dallas today? Time for a re-vote?

RF

 

[Kharma Police]

Well stated. I see it headed down this road.

What's up with the AAI MEC coming to Dallas today? Time for a re-vote?

RF

Oh snap!, how did the ALPA lawyers miss that one!

 

[redflyer65]

That's your problem, not mine. Good luck!

 

[puddlejumper101]

Gary does have something to fear, and it has nothing to do with arbitration. He is scared ALPA (along with your vocal minority), might poison the well. This is reguardless of how arbitration ends up. I think if this had been sent to a vote and you guys turned it down then his tone would be different. The fact that ALPA $hi% canned this thing without member input (all of you), has him worried. It worries him beyond arbitration, I think he might have realized that your minority might be strong enough to poison the well beyond his expectations.

 

[Kharma Police]

Gary does have something to fear, and it has nothing to do with arbitration. He is scared ALPA (along with your vocal minority), might poison the well. This is reguardless of how arbitration ends up. I think if this had been sent to a vote and you guys turned it down then his tone would be different. The fact that ALPA $hi% canned this thing without member input (all of you), has him worried. It worries him beyond arbitration, I think he might have realized that your minority might be strong enough to poison the well beyond his expectations.

Nah, they are all good guys for the most part. Just look at our performance numbers during the worst of times, always in the top range, always professional even in the face of a management that hated us. You just have to promise you won't get jealous when Dad recognizes how good we are.

 

[puddlejumper101]

Nah, they are all good guys for the most part. Just look at our performance numbers during the worst of times, always in the top range, always professional even in the face of a management that hated us. You just have to promise you won't get jealous when Dad recognizes how good we are.

You don't have to tell me that, I know many of you guys. A bunch of us played for the other airline in concourse C before we respectively joined AT and SWA. You guys have your 10% and we do too. The problem is not most of you, its your FAB7 and their sense of entitlement. The other question, how do you pretend both pilot groups can work together after all of this mud slinging? It's like two people beating the living crap out of eachother and the next day are forced to get over it, with scars and bruises. Somene is going to be pissed, might be you guys, might be us...and Gary was hoping to avoid all of this. Also, difference between USAir and this fiasco is Doug Parker sat on the sideline with thumbs up his rear not wanting to get involved. In fact, Parker figured the longer this draws out, the longer he could keep the old contracts. That's not the case here, I think this is more and more between ALPA and their FAB 7 (the oracles of Airtran), and SWA MGMNT.

 

[SWA/FO]

The FAB 7... I love it.

 

[canyonblue]

The FAB 7... I love it.

I don't, any use of "FAB" other than the Beatles is an insult. How about....

1. Seven Wonders of the Ancient World
2. Seven Deadly Sins
3. The Magnificent Seven
3. Seven Continents
4. Seven Days of the Week
5. The Seven Seas
6. Seven Habits of Highly Effective People
7. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers

 

[CF34-3B1]

I don't, any use of "FAB" other than the Beatles is an insult. How about....

1. Seven Wonders of the Ancient World
2. Seven Deadly Sins
3. The Magnificent Seven
3. Seven Continents
4. Seven Days of the Week
5. The Seven Seas
6. Seven Habits of Highly Effective People
7. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers

For the sake of all the Trannys, I just hope it doesn't turn out to be 7-11

 

[400ADude]

I've been a silent observer for a while, time to comment on a few things. I am the bottom 737 AT Captain. I may have had a lot to gain and a lot to lose in the rejected SLI Agreement. That being said -from my perspective I feel a there is a huge injustice in what is “not” being said in these message boards.


(what isn't being said -is the AirTran pilots were welcome aboard if we could accept life at SWA as a 2nd class pilot group, “the clean up crew that would work weekends, holidays and bounce from junior base to junior base for over a decade and most likely a lot longer ”)---the point our MEC made with their no vote was that is not acceptable).




To all those who preach greedy AirTran pilots---it's not about the money it's about quality of life.
What is being said is the Airtran pilots are greedy: rejecting a 2 billion $ incentive over $2 million a piece. Fuzzy math by my calculations. In fact in a few short years if I were to be back in the right seat, It would have been a pay loss. I am still a little curious how placing AT pilots on = pay scale with SWA pilots is a sweetner or incentive but that's how SWA and SWAPA are spinning it.


1st let me pointedly say our MEC did not give us the choice to decide. 2nd I think the additional pay would have been nice. However, I am well aware of what my career expectations were on 9/26/10 -I think all Airtran pilots are,.


If you studied SL9 and other supporting documentation in detail-it was plain to see the loopholes. Loopholes skillfully wrapped into the SLI agreement. The loopholes stacked the deck nicely in SWAPA's favor-and simply handing AT pilots a huge seniority loss for the majority. At the end of the day junior captain retention slots would have been negated , ATL fences would have been negated as the base would have been 40% of all AT pilots remaining displced, a lot of the other protections would have been negated. We were being enticed with money we haven't seen before to quickly rollover and sell out our seniority. I personally would have lost 33%, 51% to 84%.


Gentlemen we are not the greedy pilot group many have labeled us.


A fair and equitable integration is what we desire, we do not desire to harm our future coworkers or their careers.


The AirTran pilot group helped build a lean, profitable airline that offers a superior product. We helped build an airline we can be proud of. One that withstood valuation, judging and scrutiny by the high standards of our new owners . We helped build an airline outside of SWA,FEDEX or UPS that became a top career destination in the industry. We know how to be efficient and are thus competitive, we are a hard working group of professional aviators that do not appreciate being looked down upon. (I think that was partly the point of the MEC vote).


If we end up integrating, I look forward working with all of you in the future.


I personally hope we can put this together quickly and peaceably so we can go out and beat up on our competitors in a down economy like usual! “Together” It may take more giving from both parties.

Regards, Eric Hull

Hey Eric,

Any thoughts from your original thread?

I agree with your statement:
"I personally hope we can put this together quickly and peaceably so we can go out and beat up on our competitors in a down economy like usual"

HERE IS MY TAKE BRO:

LET's kick some tail brother and get this thing done. Greed no sir!

Profitability and a kick a$$ company. YES SIR!

What do say bro??