Good bye SL9 Greed- no sir.

[ephull]

Eric-
How do you solve the age issue? Do you think Swapa pilots projected to retire #200, retiring #700 is fair to them? Even SL9 put 300 younger trannies above me... The #'s are there- both sides have them... How do you reconcile AT's short term issues with our long term one's?

There's also the argument that SWA took years longer to get on with ON AVERAGE than AT does. A ridiculous # of pilots here have had your exact interview experience. But they got the type and interviewed 1-2 more times. Do you think the company is going to disrespect their commitment by integrating remotely evenly?
How do you tackle the argument that these were not equal jobs and capitalism should have some benefits to the purchaser?

I don't pretend to have an answer. You have some valid questions, DOH and no fences at perhaps.

 

[waveflyer]

I've stated this before- DOH gives every AT pilot a 300 Swapa pilot cushion from the snapshot bc we hired through OCT '08 whereas AT stopped hiring in April '08. Think that's right?

And DOH doesn't address the fact that if pursuing both airlines at the same time - the SWA job takes on average 3-5 years longer to attain than the AT one- it's simply more competitive bc of the pay, culture, bases etc- leading to the age disparity.

Here's my example- it would not be relevant but for the fact that it's fairly common:
its just my experience- but I've run into a lot of my 70-90,000#'s who've had similar experiences- I turned down AT in 2003 after an Air Inc conference where I spoke to both swa and AT (and Amer West and UPS and Fedex ...etc) I didn't do the interview with AT bc of a conflict and in large part bc of the advice a SWA Capt recruiter gave me to stay at my regional and pad my PIC time- I had about 1500 PT121 TPIC over 3 types at that point- a direct quote "I don't think sitting in the right seat of a larger plane is going to help you much. We always value PIC and leadership roles over the right seat in any aircraft. We hire captains and leaders." He then went on to look at my resume and stated that competitive TPIC mins for civilians are usually higher than what I had, even though I had the mins. So I stayed at my regional. Now I'd already been at a commuter and a legacy before, so I was itching like crazy to get back to Boeing sized jets- but I didn't- I padded my 121TPIC time slugging it out in the ever increasing outsourced world of legacy route structures that I used to fly big jets to. And it worked- I got the job I really wanted in 2007, 3 and a half years after I'd have been in class at AT had I passed their interview. And I passed on the first try. So many of our best pilots have had to interview 2 and 3 times to get on. it's not just civilian pilots- I've flown with several military pilots who have interviewed 2 or more times. The record I've seen is 4. And usually a year before a subsequent interview is offered.

Are those years relevant to a seniority discussion?
Obviously, I feel like they are. SWA set up a process where they could differentiate between those who wanted a job and those who REALLY want to fly for swa.
I just don't see them telling us many times a year how special we are, bragging about how difficult it is to get hired by swa- and then doing a 180 and saying "just kidding" we're integrating you by DOH.

It simply will not happen on even terms.
It's not a 2nd class citizen thing- it's a required humility, a Luke 14:10 thing, a servant mentality when you join this family-
You just don't show up with the lack of perspective ALPA has shown.
SWA buying you is very very good- you don't negotiate on a hard line in this scenario.
JMO-
Y'all are free to do as you will.

 

[dh82dvr]

Life is full of choices wave. You chose to wait and pad your time to get where you wanted. Everyone makes decisions based on the information at hand and their own personal circumstance. Just because it is different to yours doesn't mean you are any better, more determined or any other reason that may be thrown around. There is a bucket of pain that has to be shared around. I expect that AT will wear a lot but it should not be all. Whats the difference between retiring 200 or 700. Surely QOL is about the same? Pay will be the same?

 

[Beechdriver32]

Whats the difference between retiring 200 or 700. Surely QOL is about the same? Pay will be the same?

DH82dvr-

Use the same thought process and expand on it. Your QOL would have gone through the roof, you just don't know it because ALPA didn't explain it to you. You are simply ignorant of what SWA is all about. Not a slam, but if and when you get here you will see what I mean.

SWA is NOT AT. None you seem to see that. Your MEC really just simply sold you.

And Eric-
Thank you for your time and energy in writing what you did. As a 9 year SWA FO who would have been your FO for the next 10 years, I personally thank you. Most of us regular line folks would have voted this in knowing that it was good overall for the company. I really was unhappy with SL9, and thought you were getting way too many protections. Now, if you are representative of your group, I KNOW that is the case. You have simply emboldened my thoughts on your group. And thats just too bad.

I wish no ill on you and yours, but the olive branch is wilting.

If it's only about QOL and not money, why did any AT guys ever upgrade?

Be real and we might have a real conversation.

BD32

 

[St. Nic]

The arbitrators in the DL/NWA SLI did not look at age of the group. The NWA group had far more senior pilots that were "supposedly" ready to retire at any moment after the SLI (they did not, they are going close to 65), and the 3 arbitrators didn't seem to care. Just because the Airtran guys are overall younger, doesn't mean you should get a bump in seniority, and I doubt your eventual arbitration will show that.

You are offensive, plane and simple.

 

[DougCorp-9]

You want to be considered an equal?

DOH, no fence.

Welcome to SWA.

Deal. DOH and NO fences, restrictions, ect....

 

[tankerhead]

I've stated this before- DOH gives every AT pilot a 300 Swapa pilot cushion from the snapshot bc we hired through OCT '08 whereas AT stopped hiring in April '08. Think that's right?

You DO keep saying this but it's not accurate: AAI hired in 2010 before the announcement. Anyone got a list handy?

 

[carl p]

Deal. DOH and NO fences, restrictions, ect....

X2. Lets get this over with and get to the business of kicking a$$.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

X2. Lets get this over with and get to the business of kicking a$$.

And lock you into Tranny scale for the rest of your time at SWA which you were earning on Sept 26, 2010. You then get any percentage raises that RSW pilots get. You keep your retirement match and RSW keep theirs.

Other details will need to be resolved but this is the bulk of the deal.

Its not about money so this sounds fair. Right?

Alright now. So lets go kick some a$$.

 

[SOVT]

Sorry, I can't resist...

I know there is not a single AT guy who is out to ruin the culture of SWA. We want to be a part of it.

You want to be part of a culture that worships narcissistic behavior. Your mother must be proud.

And no I never applied to Southwest.