"Frontier guys" Don't get Greedy!

[mdf]

Q & A with FAPA President John Stemmler.


http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2009/07/31/a-frontier-air-pilots-take-on-southwest-airs-bid/

Man, if that guy sounds like that in Dallas on Monday, this deal will probably be off by Tuesday. Good Luck with that.

 

[dually]

I disagree with you mdf. Seemed like a down to earth guy.

 

[DH2WN]

Man, if that guy sounds like that in Dallas on Monday, this deal will probably be off by Tuesday. Good Luck with that.

I like his worst case scenario. I think he forgot the real worst case scenario is we vote the whole thing down and he works for republic.

If he comes to Dallas with that crap in his mind he can take the first Republic flight back to Den.

 

[learherkjay]

Have fun in arbitration! Relative? Merger of equals? DOH? All sounds too familiar.

How is this a merger of equals? Delta/NWA was a merger. SWA is bidding on a bankrupt airline at an auction.

 

[maru657]

Just talked to a couple of friends at Frontier. They seemed to think that Republic is a better deal and that with the Republic purse strings, Frontier could see a lot of growth. On the other hand, they said Southwest had to borrow 600 million and then sell airplanes for lease back, on top of that Southwest is overstaffed and without an oppourtunity for quick growth will probably furlough soon.

 

[vv100]

With all due respect your friends are morons

 

[Flying the Line]

Man, if that guy sounds like that in Dallas on Monday, this deal will probably be off by Tuesday. Good Luck with that.

Tuesday's meeting has been rescheduled for 1:00 p.m. due to widespread bottle flu.

 

[mdf]

I disagree with you mdf. Seemed like a down to earth guy.

Down to earth, but out of touch with reality. Kind of a common theme these days.

 

[FR8dognit]

Can someone explain to me when the unions [FAPA & SWAPA] are supposed to meet? Is that the meeting Tuesday? Will a deal be either struck or not struck before the binding11th deadline? The way I understand it if the unions can't come to an agreement then no deal with F9/WN. Am I missing something?

 

[johnsonrod]

How many ATA pilots were ultimately hired by SWA????

Unfortunately we've seen this situation before with SWA. They wanted MDW all to themselves and the bought ATA and parsed out its assets to get it. Now DEN is in their sites. You can't necessarily blame SWA's management because this is a business and they have every right to do what is necessary to boost revenues and profits... It would be a good strategic move for SWA.

Big questions: roughly how many ATA pilots were eventually hired by SWA post acquisition? What percentage of all ATA pilots were ultimately hired by SWA?

If I were a current F9 pilot I would be a bit nervous at the moment given the ATA history. Also, will all F9 pilots need to get/buy 737 type ratings if they don't already have one to qualify for a SWA interview? I realize F9 used to operate 737s but not all pilots will have that 737 experience (perhaps many hired directly into the Airbus). How will that work? Who would pay for the ratings? There are a lot of questions that would need to be answered...

 

[SWA/FO]

SWA did not BUY ATA.

 

[328dude]

Staple with pay protection, just like Morris. Who here wouldn't throw gear here for 230,000 a year? 95% of our current senority list makes over 6 figures a year.

 

[thruthemurk]

6 ATA pilots hired at SWA post aquisition of assets.

 

[328dude]

One was in my class. He's an awesome guy too.

 

[krewmeel]

Staple with pay protection, just like Morris. Who here wouldn't throw gear here for 230,000 a year? 95% of our current senority list makes over 6 figures a year.

I personally would be happy to be a stapled FO for that kind of cabbage, but again, don't think it will wash under Mcaskill/Bond. This law is to keep one work group from integrating another for just that reason. Also, our senior captains will not go back to being FO's even though a WN FO pays about the same as a F9 captain....I guess they can just quit

 

[tzskipper]

SWA did not BUY ATA.

Fwiw, they did, in order to acquire the LGA slots...

S

 

[FNG320]

Here's the only "fair" way to integrate:

1. No bump/no flush.
2. F9 began operating this time around in 1994. Therefore:
All SWA pilots hired prior to 1994 maintain their current seniority. F9 pilots ratioed into the post 1994 SWA list.
3. Subsequent openings filled from integrated seniority list.

No one gets any windfalls.

Sounds like you are talking DOH to me! Sounds like a windfall for the pre-1994 SWA pilots! Delta/NWA merger and Nicoli award has percentage integration of both pilots groups such that pilots maintain their relative percentage of seniority.

But when you read the press releases from SWA, all they talk about is "hiring Frontier employees" as they take new 737 and retire Airbus aircraft. Thas sounds like "prefferential interviews/hiring". All Frontier people end up as new hires, at the bottom of the SWA list.

This is one merger that the Frontier pilots should fight on every front unless they get the merger/SLI in writing upfront! Otherwise it will be worse than the SWA/Morris Air (where at least they got to keep their seniority)

Just my opinion......

FNG

 

[av8tordude23]

Bull$hit. Your entire post is THE definition of a windfall.
We have over 4700 post '94 pilots.
If F9 wants to get greedy they can fly an RJ for Republic. Otherwise they can take the right seat, at the bottom of the list, in a 73 for $40\hour more than they are making now. It's up to them. I have no doubt how the SWAPA pilots will vote.

I'd love to see us put every F9 pilot on the payroll, but I won't sacrifice ONE of my fellow pilots. Ain't personal, just business.

This is a classic example of SW love (of lack there of) for F9.

 

[MELVIS]

Wow! Usually SWA types are cool, but throw in a proposed merger and Wow. Throwing anyone under the bus is stupid, as professionals let's just see what actually comes of this. Some are already fighting the seniority fight, good on you, but do you really want that bad blood spilt so soon? As a furloughed AW guy, maybe try to work something out, we pilot types really need to learn to work well and play with others. This infighting of different pilot groups has gotten us nowhere.

 

[hockeypilot44]

It's funny reading these posts. Someone said F9 guys should only be merged with SWA guys hired after 1994 because that is when Frontier started. Well America West started in 1983, but US Airways pilots hired before 1983 are still junior to America West pilots using Nic. There are arguments about how much more Southwest pays. Well starting Frontier pay is more than top Republic first officer pay and there are Frontier first officers making more than Republic captains, but Republic pilots still want a ratio merger. The NWA/DAL merger gave all of NWA's attrition to the Delta pilots. There are many factors and many precedents in mergers. I've learned anything can happen. The Frontier pilots could all lose their jobs or the Frontier captains could become SWA captains. Anything in between can happen also. We will not know until it is done. Speculating is pointless.