"Frontier guys" Don't get Greedy!

[Bake]

is one merger that the Frontier pilots should fight on every front unless they get the merger/SLI in writing upfront! Otherwise it will be worse than the SWA/Morris Air (where at least they got to keep their seniority

The Morris Air pilots were stapled to the bottom of the list with pay protection. I think your facts are way off.

 

[Golden Falcon]

Did they take all the Morris pilots, or did they have to "re-interview" for the job??

 

[Flying the Line]

Bond-McCaskill staes that an airline that purchases more than 51% will take the employees. It does not stipulate that those employees will be employed continuously through the process. IOW SWA can buy F9 and furlough F9 pilots as 737's are brought on to replace Airbus aircraft. Seniority Integratrion can be mutually agreed upon or go to arbitration. SWA has stated that seniority will be agreed to prior to a purchase. Therefore the fate of F9 pilots will be known before F9 becomes part of SWA (if they are the winner of the auction). Any and all F9 pilots will be part of the SWAPA pilots seniority list if they are actively flying or on furlough. The (2) questions that remain is (1) will F9 pilots agree to the seniority integration that SWAPA proposes and (2) will SWA win the auction.F9 can say we do not agree to senority integration and [if] SWA purchases F9 then it could go to an arbitrator. My feeling is that SWA will honor SWAPA's decision on integration and not make a binding bid if F9 does not negotiate a SLI to their desires.As a post script I believe that F9 pilots will lose either way, which way will be up to them.

 

[Slug]

Did they take all the Morris pilots, or did they have to "re-interview" for the job??

They took all the Morris folks (that wanted to come). There were even pilots taken that had been turned down in a SWA interview previously.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

So what are we going to call this if its RAH/F9 or SW/F9

East VS West is taken!

 

[Zinger]

The deal won't float without the Seniority List Integration approval of SWA pilots. What do the SWA pilots want? To place the F9 folks at the rear of the list with a longevity pay raise. Anything else and the SWA pilots will sink the deal. It will never make it to an arbitrator. F9 folks better start to get on board with the idea of being at the bottom of a SWA list with pay protection or there will be no deal with SWA. Absent that, the future would be sailing with Republic. Smooth sailing or rough seas ahead? The choice is obvious to me. It would be crazy to pass up the SWA conditions and go forward with Republic.

 

[Fubijaakr]

So, Zing, F9 pilots should be GRATEFUL you want to staple them? Good luck convincing an arbitrator of that.

 

[shootr]

It won't go to an arbitrator. Either the unions agree to something or SWA says they will pull back the offer. FAPA can agree to something with SWAPA or they can be bought by Republic. They will have to judge for themselves (as a group) which choice is better.

shootr

 

[Zinger]

I don't. The deal would long be dead before it ever landed on an arbitrator's desk.

 

[NuGuy]

I don't. The deal would long be dead before it ever landed on an arbitrator's desk.

I remember some DAL pilots thinking that very same thing....

Nu

 

[T2Bus]

This all sounds like USAPA .....

 

[BigMotorToter]

So what are we going to call this if its RAH/F9 or SW/F9

East VS West is taken!

How about North vs. South?

 

[Caveman]

I understand why some of you believe the unions have to agree (and quickly) or the deal is off. I'm not so sure. It may just be a bluff to appease SWAPA and get FAPA to play nice. I don't think this offer by SWA was made lightly. It seems to me they've shown their hand and really want to get their hands on F9. It may be to eliminate F9 as competition or as a prelude to all out war with UAL in DEN. I don't think they would have made this play unless they had already talked to SWAPA or they didn't care about an SLI one way or the other. The stakes are too high. I think they will get this done with or without an initial agreement between SWAPA/FAPA. YMMV.

 

[RedDogC130]

It appears that SWA is buying an airline, namely Frontier. According to the rules and regulations, if an airline buys another airline the employees have to go with them, assuming all conditions are satisfied. Well, all the pilots will come with Frontier as well as the pilots of Lynx. They will be working for their respective company. The SWA pilots will be working for SWA. All 3 companies will be operated separately and will be owned by SWA Holding. SWA Holding can do what they want with their companies as long as they operate separately. Now if someone came along and wanted to buy Frontier they could be sold again. They could sell all the pieces and make a profit. They could merge them with SWA but then the employees will have to be integrated with SWA employees. SWA Holding can also do the same thing with Lynx which will be operating as another separate airline. So, accepting a staple with pay protection would be the best option for Frontier.

 

[ATRCAPT]

Here's the only "fair" way to integrate:

1. No bump/no flush.
2. F9 began operating this time around in 1994. Therefore:
All SWA pilots hired prior to 1994 maintain their current seniority. F9 pilots ratioed into the post 1994 SWA list.
3. Subsequent openings filled from integrated seniority list.

No one gets any windfalls.

That's horsesh!t. EVERY SWAPA pilot maintains seniority, period. No offense to the F9 folks, but I've already lost mega-bucks from my retirement because of this age 65 crap, I don't want my 15 year upgrade to become a 20 year upgrade.

Pay protect them, and then staple them.

 

[jonjuan]

That's horsesh!t. I don't want my 15 year upgrade to become a 20 year upgrade.

Who told you it was a 15 year upgrade, Herb or Gary?

 

[FDJ2]

It appears that SWA is buying an airline, namely Frontier. According to the rules and regulations, if an airline buys another airline the employees have to go with them, assuming all conditions are satisfied. Well, all the pilots will come with Frontier as well as the pilots of Lynx. They will be working for their respective company. The SWA pilots will be working for SWA. All 3 companies will be operated separately and will be owned by SWA Holding. SWA Holding can do what they want with their companies as long as they operate separately.

What does FAPA's PWA say about being acquired, does it, like most airlines, require integration of the pilot groups in the event of an acquisition or fragmentation? How about SWAPA's PWA, what does it say about integration when SWA acqires another airline? Finally, what does federal law say? You may be presuming too much if you think SWA can buy another airline, poach it's assets and discard its employees.

 

[FDJ2]

Pay protect them, and then staple them.

If that's a "fair and equitable" integration method, then I'm sure you'll have no problem getting an arbitrator to agree to it.

 

[ATRCAPT]

Who told you it was a 15 year upgrade, Herb or Gary?

Torti at recurrent. The exact numbers don't matter anyway. The fact of the matter is that putting the F9 guys in front of SWAPA pilots will make our already lengthy upgrade that much longer. Again, no offense to the F9 folks, but SWA is the acquiring airline. Stapling with pay protection is the only thing that is "fair and equitable".

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

For the fifth time posted on here, there will not be an arbitrator. Either SWAPA and FAPA agree, or no deal. That is in compliance with A/M provision, if both sides agree before the deal is done. There will be no arbitration.