FO/Flex how would you vote to integrate??

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

I guess if a vote is required, and if 50%+1 vote yes, then that's forcing?

If the 50% + 1 are all FO pilots, I would say yes.

 

[slowtation capt]

If the 50% + 1 are all FO pilots, I would say yes.

If u r so in the know, figure the #'s of Flex pilots vs Fo pilots.
I think you meant to say forced on you

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Right out of the union busting handbook. The "evil" union will be forced on you. You don't have to join.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Right out of the union busting handbook. The "evil" union will be forced on you. You don't have to join.

But your contract and work rules will be forced on us.

Are you saying I would get to keep my current direct contract with management?

The numbers favor FO.

If every FO pilots voted for the IBT and every FJ pilot voted against it, what would the outcome be? That sounds to me like you would be forcing your union on us.

But it would be ok, because at least the pay cuts and worse work rules would be protected. I would sleep better at night knowing that only the IBT contract would force a pay cut on me, management wouldn't be able to do it at any time like they have in the past. Oh wait, they never have.

So my choices are a guaranteed pay cut with the IBT or a pay cut the IBT says management will give us. Sounds like one is a certainty.

 

[slowtation capt]

But your contract and work rules will be forced on us.

Are you saying I would get to keep my current direct contract with management?

The numbers favor FO.

If every FO pilots voted for the IBT and every FJ pilot voted against it, what would the outcome be? That sounds to me like you would be forcing your union on us.

But it would be ok, because at least the pay cuts and worse work rules would be protected. I would sleep better at night knowing that only the IBT contract would force a pay cut on me, management wouldn't be able to do it at any time like they have in the past. Oh wait, they never have.

So my choices are a guaranteed pay cut with the IBT or a pay cut the IBT says management will give us. Sounds like one is a certainty.

You truly speak of someone that does not have a clue on how this will work
You are so against the union you WANT to believe that you WILL be FORCED on our contract.

This is not how it will work

Currently management and the union have been meeting to work out integration, this includes protection rights for both sides.
This would mean that you wouldn't lose your seat, your pay, etc...
What you have, you keep, what we have we keep.
When this is agreed upon, a single carrier petition will take place.
Upon ruling of single carrier, a vote for representation takes place. It will be yes or no.
If the outcome is yes, then negotiations for a NEW contract that would cover the entire combined pilot group would start.

So please tell me exactly how you would be forced on our contract, our pay, etc.......

And really, you believe that every single Flops pilot will vote yes

You might be knowledgeable about all these emails with who is in charge.
But you don't have any clue on how this merging of the groups, and the union, the contract, etc... works.
Your ignorance really shines through, or you are trying to spread FUD to the other Flex pilots in hopes that you can make them believe that they will lose everything if they vote yes, so you can get your personal way and not have a union.
Which one is it?????

 

[Club ORD FO]

"I just don't want your union forced on the FJ pilots."

Aside from your blatant arrogance, what annoys me are your inaccuracies. Nothing is forced on the FJ pilots - they'll vote for or against representation.

Well from our point of view, everything at the moment is a-ok. A vote will not happen unless someone petitions the NMB, and the flex pilots sure as hell won't do it. The union will. Which will lead to a vote. And we have fewer pilots. So it is kinda sorta being forced on us. We'd all rather that we just stay separate. You guys can keep you union, it doesn't bother me. If and when things get bad we will come begging for representation.

But your contract and work rules will be forced on us.

TWA, I have to say one that statement you are incorrect 100%. If the union is voted in we are not put on their pay and work rules. Initially nothing happens while a new contract is written, which we then all vote on. So unless that new contract includes lower pay and work rules...

 

[Club ORD FO]

Slowtation... I must admit I'm struggling with why a single carrier status is necessary from the unions point of view. Can't the union and company just agree on some fences that allow us to keep doing our flying and you keep doing yours? KR wants single carrier because he thinks the union will have a chance of getting voted out, which is definitely a possibility. So why is the union got forward with it? It seems risky doesn't it?

 

[slowtation capt]

Slowtation... I must admit I'm struggling with why a single carrier status is necessary from the unions point of view. Can't the union and company just agree on some fences that allow us to keep doing our flying and you keep doing yours? KR wants single carrier because he thinks the union will have a chance of getting voted out, which is definitely a possibility. So why is the union got forward with it? It seems risky doesn't it?

Well, because KR wants single, he wants this to be merged. So the Union could beat their chests and big the big bad bullies that everyone wants to believe they are and just refuse to do it.
Or they can work with the company like they are to protect both sides to achieve a goal that KR wants and would benefit the growth of these companies into this Onesky branding.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Well, because KR wants single, he wants this to be merged. So the Union could beat their chests and big the big bad bullies that everyone wants to believe they are and just refuse to do it.
Or they can work with the company like they are to protect both sides to achieve a goal that KR wants and would benefit the growth of these companies into this Onesky branding.

Hmm, well I guess he has not said that to us. At meetings and in press releases he has said that the two companies will operate separately. On the sled presentation about NMB and various outcomes it showed what I took as separate pilot groups. Out middle management has not said we will for sure merge if the union is voted instead.

Instead we are hearing about the more senior and larger options pilot group drooling over our challengers and wanting to bring their furloughs back. So by filing for single carrier you are being the big bad union.

 

[slowtation capt]

Hmm, well I guess he has not said that to us. At meetings and in press releases he has said that the two companies will operate separately. On the sled presentation about NMB and various outcomes it showed what I took as separate pilot groups. Out middle management has not said we will for sure merge if the union is voted instead.

Instead we are hearing about the more senior and larger options pilot group drooling over our challengers and wanting to bring their furloughs back. So by filing for single carrier you are being the big bad union.

So by KR saying in his meetings a few months back, that he wants single carrier as of yesterday, that means what?

 

[slowtation capt]

Instead we are hearing about the more senior and larger options pilot group drooling over our challengers and wanting to bring their furloughs back. So by filing for single carrier you are being the big bad union.

They can drool all they want, we are not getting into them anytime soon. There will be fences.

These people do not educate themselves about the Union and what is happening, complain about not getting communications from the Union, even though they provided no way for the Union to email them. They do not even know or take the time to know our contract and bitch about getting screwed, but then when you tell them about what the contract says about it and how the company shouldn't be doing it, they are clueless.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

TWA, I agree with you. It would be nice if the FO pilots had your pay and some of your work rules in the new CBA. Going back to the 3AM wake-up calls? No thanks

 

[J3guy]

Hopefully 20 plus year fences

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

You truly speak of someone that does not have a clue on how this will work
You are so against the union you WANT to believe that you WILL be FORCED on our contract.

This is not how it will work

Currently management and the union have been meeting to work out integration, this includes protection rights for both sides.
This would mean that you wouldn't lose your seat, your pay, etc...
What you have, you keep, what we have we keep.
When this is agreed upon, a single carrier petition will take place.
Upon ruling of single carrier, a vote for representation takes place. It will be yes or no.
If the outcome is yes, then negotiations for a NEW contract that would cover the entire combined pilot group would start.

So please tell me exactly how you would be forced on our contract, our pay, etc.......

And really, you believe that every single Flops pilot will vote yes

You might be knowledgeable about all these emails with who is in charge.
But you don't have any clue on how this merging of the groups, and the union, the contract, etc... works.
Your ignorance really shines through, or you are trying to spread FUD to the other Flex pilots in hopes that you can make them believe that they will lose everything if they vote yes, so you can get your personal way and not have a union.
Which one is it?????

I misspoke. Your current contract wouldn't be forced on us, just your next one if the IBT is voted for. I know we would be involved in the negotiations, but I have zero faith that your next contract would be a vast improvement over your current contract.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

You have zero faith. Some of us are trying to improve things around here. Seams like you don't have much more to contribute than your negative attitude.