FO/Flex how would you vote to integrate??

[slowtation capt]

The global program is a closed fleet, not fractional. Any FJ pilots that go to it will keep their FJ seniority number as well. Doesn't mean that the FLOPS pilots flying them will have a FJ seniority number. This is how it was explained all along. Don't start twisting it into something it's not. Globals were always going to be on the FJ side, so it makes sense to me.

Who's twisting what? The original post said he would have a FlexJet # I said he will be employed and paid a salary through Flops but working for FlexJet and keeping his Flops # The globals were presented as a Onesky aircraft with its own unique identity, including its own paint scheme, but marketed under the Flex brand. So they really aren't under the Flex side, just using the marketing power of Flex and it's association to Bombardier products to market a program unto itself that is a Bombardier product.

 

[squawk]

The global program is a closed fleet, not fractional. Any FJ pilots that go to it will keep their FJ seniority number as well. Doesn't mean that the FLOPS pilots flying them will have a FJ seniority number. This is how it was explained all along. Don't start twisting it into something it's not. Globals were always going to be on the FJ side, so it makes sense to me.

It is hard to make sense of this. KR wants to eliminate overlap in management between FJ and FO, and now he wants to set up numerous mini bureaucracies. Wouldn't it be more efficient to have them manned and scheduled and dispatched by one or the other?

 

[shanes123]

Only thing you have contributed TWA. Is trying to protect your cushy job and don't give a ******************** about anyone else. So yes I will call you a scumbag. Cause you are one. Truth hurts

 

[BlueNose]

It appears the Global Express pilot positions (who are either former or current Fight Options management) are now "employed" by FlexJet, at least according to one of the now-Chief Aircraft Managers LinkedIn update. I guarantee you that in being "chosen" for those jobs they did not relinquish their FlOps seniority numbers. So you now have FlOps pilots on the Flex side, who may or may not have Flex seniority numbers, flying un-bid positions, in the largest equipment available that are the highest paid of both pilot groups.

All because Kenn deemed it so.

Sounds sorta familiar. History might not repeat, but it often rhymes. Are these guys being issued five-stripe epaulets?

 

[shanes123]

Sounds sorta familiar. History might not repeat, but it often rhymes. Are these guys being issued five-stripe epaulets?

Nope. Just dusted off the old ones.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Only thing you have contributed TWA. Is trying to protect your cushy job and don't give a ******************** about anyone else. So yes I will call you a scumbag. Cause you are one. Truth hurts

Sorry bud, I don't have any old coworkers at FO that I am aware of. Hence, you don't know me. For that truth it appears I am lucky.

If you now want us to remain separate, why do you care what we do or think? The best part about us remaining separate is that you and I will never have to share a cockpit

You appear to be a very bitter and angry individual. Not the qualities that come to mind when I think of the word professional.

 

[Fresh Air]

You guys know that our opinions on this don't matter, right? We won't get to vote on seniority integration.

Seniority integration will come after the representation vote. If we are represented, the lawyers will negotiate with Mgt and come up with a solution that in their judgment complies with McCaskill-Bond and both parties (Union and Mgt) will accept. If we are not represented, seniority will be settled however KR wants it, and if individual pilots don't agree, they are free to hire a lawyer and sue.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

You guys know that our opinions on this don't matter, right? We won't get to vote on seniority integration.

Seniority integration will come after the representation vote. If we are represented, the lawyers will negotiate with Mgt and come up with a solution that in their judgment complies with McCaskill-Bond and both parties (Union and Mgt) will accept. If we are not represented, seniority will be settled however KR wants it, and if individual pilots don't agree, they are free to hire a lawyer and sue.

Even without a union representing the pilots any seniority integration must follow the MB criteria since it deals with air carrier crews.

FJ management has already stated that both pilot groups WILL get to vote on any seniority integration. You speak based on speculation, I am speaking based on what we are being told by our (FJ and FO) management team.

 

[Fresh Air]

Even without a union representing the pilots any seniority integration must follow the MB criteria since it deals with air carrier crews.

FJ management has already stated that both pilot groups WILL get to vote on any seniority integration. You speak based on speculation, I am speaking based on what we are being told by our (FJ and FO) management team.

Well then, since your management told you so, it MUST be true! (sort of like your management told you that the IBT1108 refused to allow FO pilots on Yammer, right?)

I have been through the integration process twice, in neither instance was a vote taken.

Time will tell!

 

[shanes123]

Sorry bud, I don't have any old coworkers at FO that I am aware of. Hence, you don't know me. For that truth it appears I am lucky.

If you now want us to remain separate, why do you care what we do or think? The best part about us remaining separate is that you and I will never have to share a cockpit

You appear to be a very bitter and angry individual. Not the qualities that come to mind when I think of the word professional.

I do know you..And when I called you out you went to the moderator crying like a little bitch that you are and complained..You are a selfish self serving individual..And you better hope we never share a cockpit together..It would not benefit you one bit..

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Come on shanes, give him a break. You should know by now how far the one's that have special percs will go to protect what they have. Even selling their soul to the devil himself.

 

[slowtation capt]

Even without a union representing the pilots any seniority integration must follow the MB criteria since it deals with air carrier crews.

FJ management has already stated that both pilot groups WILL get to vote on any seniority integration. You speak based on speculation, I am speaking based on what we are being told by our (FJ and FO) management team.

First it's Flex management running everything, now there is 2 different management teams. Which is it?
Funny how your management and Flops management is telling you these things. Our management isn't telling the Flops pilots anything. Glad that you guys have such an open communication with both, wonder why we can't. Ohhh, yeah probably because they don't want us telling the truth.

 

[slowtation capt]

Even without a union representing the pilots any seniority integration must follow the MB criteria since it deals with air carrier crews.

FJ management has already stated that both pilot groups WILL get to vote on any seniority integration. You speak based on speculation, I am speaking based on what we are being told by our (FJ and FO) management team.

Why vote, didn't you say we are just gonna remain seperate if the Union is voted out.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

First it's Flex management running everything, now there is 2 different management teams. Which is it?
Funny how your management and Flops management is telling you these things. Our management isn't telling the Flops pilots anything. Glad that you guys have such an open communication with both, wonder why we can't. Ohhh, yeah probably because they don't want us telling the truth.

I said team, not teams. You do have management, they just report to DW.

What truth do you feel is being kept from you?

 

[warlord19]

You little union goobers sure are perky today.
Just saying.
WL

 

[slowtation capt]

I said team, not teams. You do have management, they just report to DW.

What truth do you feel is being kept from you?

Not from us, from you. They don't want us to tell you how things really happen.
Still funny how our management "team" tells you things, but us , they also just say " you guys on the road probably know more than us, they don't us anything"

 

[The Architect]

False

I said team, not teams. You do have management, they just report to DW.

This is a false statement.

As is the statement that JW has authority over Flight Options operations.

This will most likely change and evolve over time. But today, the management teams, DW and MS remain in their same organizational roles as prior to the Flexjet acquisition.

 

[wingsnthings]

This is a false statement.

As is the statement that JW has authority over Flight Options operations.

This will most likely change and evolve over time. But today, the management teams, DW and MS remain in their same organizational roles as prior to the Flexjet acquisition.

You are wrong.

 

[The Architect]

Not Wrong

You are wrong.

The actual titles and oversight of the named individuals are forthcoming plans. Plans that are constantly moving.

FACT: JW is NOT in the position of VP of Operations or VP of Flight Operations at Flight Options.

FACT: DW is NOT the executive officer with oversight of a Flight Options pilots or operations at this time.

Not saying it won't happen. But it is NOT that way now.

Please feel free to prove that wrong. No hearsay. Provide the communications to the Flight Options employees that such management changes occurred.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

The actual titles and oversight of the named individuals are forthcoming plans. Plans that are constantly moving.

FACT: JW is NOT in the position of VP of Operations or VP of Flight Operations at Flight Options.

FACT: DW is NOT the executive officer with oversight of a Flight Options pilots or operations at this time.

Not saying it won't happen. But it is NOT that way now.

Please feel free to prove that wrong. No hearsay. Provide the communications to the Flight Options employees that such management changes occurred.

You are correct.

The president of FO is still the president, but they now report to DW.

The VP of FO is still the VP, but they now report to JW

An email was sent out to all FJ employees regarding this change several months ago. I am not sure why this information has not been conveyed to your pilot group yet.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Ask a question and get more hearsay.

 

[The Architect]

Closer

You are correct.

The president of FO is still the president, but they now report to DW.

The VP of FO is still the VP, but they now report to JW

An email was sent out to all FJ employees regarding this change several months ago. I am not sure why this information has not been conveyed to your pilot group yet.

Flight Options does not have a "president." Flight Options has a CEO. He does NOT report to DW.

Who is the "VP of FO" that you reference?

That email spoke of the what was expected to happen. Future. Not as is now.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Flight Options does not have a "president." Flight Options has a CEO. He does NOT report to DW.

Who is the "VP of FO" that you reference?

That email spoke of the what was expected to happen. Future. Not as is now.

3/3 KS, the VP of FO left for Constant Aviation.

JW was named VP of the closed fleet that day which includes FO and FJ.

JW reports to DW.

Not sure how much clearer ths can be.

You guys seem to be in denial.

 

[slowtation capt]

3/3 KS, the VP of FO left for Constant Aviation.

JW was named VP of the closed fleet that day which includes FO and FJ.

JW reports to DW.

Not sure how much clearer ths can be.

You guys seem to be in denial.

Hmmm, closed fleet, and yet we will be able to remain seperate if the Union is voted out.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Hmmm, closed fleet, and yet we will be able to remain seperate if the Union is voted out.

Closed fleet is FO and FJ. It had to do with who owns the aircraft, not a combining of pilot groups.

Open fleet is Sentinent. They manage aircraft owned by other companies.

Have you been told that KS left FO?

It seems to be that there is an information vacuum on the FO side of the company.

Since you all claim that FO management has direct communication with you, maybe you should ask them these questions.

 

[Club ORD FO]

3/3 KS, the VP of FO left for Constant Aviation.

JW was named VP of the closed fleet that day which includes FO and FJ.

JW reports to DW.

Not sure how much clearer ths can be.

You guys seem to be in denial.

I'm pretty sure that although JW has the same title across both companies, he reports to a different person on the options side.

 

[squawk]

I think the name should be changed from Onesky to Chaos.

 

[BlueNose]

Closed fleet is FO and FJ. It had to do with who owns the aircraft, not a combining of pilot groups.

Open fleet is Sentinent. They manage aircraft owned by other companies.

Have you been told that KS left FO?

It seems to be that there is an information vacuum on the FO side of the company.

Since you all claim that FO management has direct communication with you, maybe you should ask them these questions.

Options website still shows JS as VP of Flight Ops, the position he's held for years. CP and DO have always reported to him. Has the Ops Manual been amended to show different? A non-FO employee cannot have operational control of FO airplanes, that would be illegal on the air carrier side, see A008. Do you have info that a Flex (or even DAC) employee is exercising operational control of FO airplanes?

KS was VP of Ops, and ran OCC and Mx, not Flight Ops. I don't know, but I wonder if he' still running Mx at CGF, maybe still all the stations, just employed by Constant now. Wouldn't be surprised if the whole Mx network goes over to the Constant side. More money for KR that way - Directional has partners at FO, they own Constant, so when FO pays Constant a dollar, KR takes 60 cents from his right pocket and puts a dollar in his left. Works the same way when FO works with Sentient, Sojourn, etc. Flex will be using the same network, and so provide the same profit opportunities for DAC companies. Someone less trusting of human nature might call it a shell game, but don't worry, Kenn has only your best interests at heart.

 

[slowtation capt]

It seems to be that there is an information vacuum on the FO side of the company.

Why do you think that is??

The real question that you should be asking is, and ask yourself this.

If all these people from your side are now running management at Flops, if everyone reports to DW, who reports to KR.

Why are they so forthcoming with information to you, but no information is being passed to the Options crews? Why keep the Options crews so in the dark?

Since you all claim that FO management has direct communication with you, maybe you should ask them these questions.

I have asked, when in CGF. They are all as clueless or not forthcoming with information as we are.

 

[doh]

TWA, I have wondered about operational control as well. Could you please explain how that works cross company? Thank you! :beer: