Fedex plane runs off runway at ORD

[adverseyaw]

Hey did y'all hear? A FedEx plane ran off the runway at ORD! Glad no one got hurt.

 

[pipe]

She was a Academy graduate, and not very young when all this took place.. no I didn't screw anyone's wife, or directly disobey even a 2LT's orders while serving in two wars/war zones in my time in the service. I mean it isn't like UPS doesn't have 5000 well qualified and recommended people they could be interviewing WITHOUT a less than honorable discharge, is it?

Sorry if I come off as a bit of a pre-madona on this, but I sadly suffer from something called "a set of absolutes" that I live by.

Anyway, I've hijacked this thread long enough..

Is that like Pat Benatar or Blondie? BTW, there are two n's in Madonna.

PIPE

 

[propjob27]

Someone said we had an accident in San Diego last week, I hadn't heard about that one. Any details?

 

[Laughing_Jakal]

.....You folks have a systemic human factors disaster on your hands right now that threatens the continued existence of your organization. People are just rubber-necking. Human nature.

Disclaimer: FedEx has great pilots. These accidents are mostly attributable to latent organizational pathogens and other cultural issues.

How do you come to that conclusion? Give me the statistics in incidents per 1000s of departures that support your conclusions. I think you are jumping on an anecdotal bandwagon. We fly jets heavy, we fly them safely, and we have a crapload of flights everyday into some of the busiest and loneliest places on earth.

By the way, your disclaimer doesn't hold water with me.....It is like saying our soldiers are butchering babies in Iraq......"But I support the troops".

If you don't fly with us, and are not familiar with our operation, you have no basis for your statement about "human factors".

 

[Diesel]

Did they miss the arresting wire?







Incoming.

 

[Ex737Driver]

We fly jets heavy, we fly them safely, and we have a crapload of flights everyday into some of the busiest and loneliest places on earth.

If you don't fly with us, and are not familiar with our operation, you have no basis for your statement about "human factors".

Granted, but the point is most airlines do the same thing your airline does for both points you mention, yet FEDEX seems to have a trend that can be charted and yet no one seems to be remotely interested in it other than the CPO.

 

[80for80]

2 things that will survive a nuclear war, cockroaches and FedEx pilots.

Glad to see that nobody was hurt. Plus it did have a positive impact. It caused the DHL 767, right behind it on the approach, to divert and miss service to Chicago.

 

[Laughing_Jakal]

Granted, but the point is most airlines do the same thing your airline does for both points you mention, yet FEDEX seems to have a trend that can be charted and yet no one seems to be remotely interested in it other than the CPO.

CPO.....you mean Chief Petty Officer? Seriously, we all want to reduce this kind of thing. But Airtran went into the weeds the other day in Memphis....I hear about all kinds of airlines sticking trucks in the mud or over-running from time to time. We have a huge, huge, number of departures each day. I don't know the statistics, but I suspect when you compare apples to apples, it will look less sensational than the annecdotal evidence might suggest.

I think it interesting that folks outside seem to "know" what our culture is and who is interested and who is not. I find it interesting that people release, and other people read information that is meant for internal consumption. Based upon items taken out of context, become expert on our operations they know nothing about.

But go ahead, tell me what is wrong with FedEx and our culture....because after all the time at the company, I need someone with no knowledge of the situation to diagnose what I can't figure out myself. Then when it's all said and done, you can ask me what the status of your meet and greet is.

"Yeah, FedEx has a terrible culture, but I can't wait till my bud walks me in for a pre-interview"

 

[Babylon]

Saw that a DC10 went into the mud in San Diego - anyone know the story there? SAN has gotten virtually zerio precip in the last 7 days so not even sure what "mud" there was or what the circumstances were. Yeah we've got to clean up - going off the runway while taxiing - time to say goodbye.

 

[Scrapdog]

Did they miss the arresting wire?







Incoming.

It's funny you should ask that - but looking from your background, you'll never have the pleasure of flying a military jet with those kind of capabilities anyway.

OK Diesel - let me guess...from reading your prior posts and most of them having negative conotations towards mil pilots and FDX - I'm thinking at some point you probably got burned at trying to get a job with FDX and you're jealous of the fact it has quite a few mil pilots in its company. Did I hit the nail on the head? I'm thinking so...Now, give us all a break and get over your little semantics. I love the "civilian and PROUD" - it's such a cute touch. LOL

I'd say instead of throwing in snide little comments like you enjoy doing - a more proper thing to say is I'm glad none of the crew was hurt.

 

[dee48eal]

our motto at fedex is " its hard to kill a fedex pilot" busboy

 

[LJDRVR]

How do you come to that conclusion? Give me the statistics in incidents per 1000s of departures that support your conclusions. I think you are jumping on an anecdotal bandwagon. We fly jets heavy, we fly them safely, and we have a crapload of flights everyday into some of the busiest and loneliest places on earth.

Umm......O.K. It will take me a week or two to mine the accident per departure numbers, but in the meantime, let's do a little non-scientific comparison to a similar sized operation with an identical mission into similar airports. We'll use UPS so you can't accuse me of ignoring the effect fatigue has on our subject.

During the last ten years, FedEx has had 40 accident/incidents. of those, let's ignore any without a probable cause yet assigned, which gets us down to 32. Now we remove any accidents/incidents where the probable cause was not attributed to a FedEx employee. (Plain dumb luck, such a furniture varnish causing an air return due to fumes in the cockpit. I'm actually being pretty generous in doing this, as FDX has several such occurrences, where UPS has none, leading me to wonder if FDX has an issue with the way they accept potentially dangerous good for shipment, but I digress.)

That task complete, and we find FedEx has had 16 incidents/accidents in the last decade where the probable cause of the accident was an error committed by an employee or crewmember of the company. In other words, a human factors accident.

Now let's apply the same weeding-out process at UPS. During the last decade, they have had five accidents. Removing three with no probable cause, we find the two left are both Human Factors accidents/Incidents.

16 vs. 2 or 40 vs. 6. However you want to paint it. FedEx has 336 airplanes, UPS 246.

All things being equal, Federal Express should have 27% more accidents than UPS, in fact the number is 85% more.

If you don't fly with us, and are not familiar with our operation, you have no basis for your statement about "human factors".

Sure I do. (see above) Look, I'm not some jealous applicant who didn't get hired. I think the world of the aviators at FedEx, and would put them up against anybody as far as skills go. You have, unarguably, a HF disaster on your hands. The likely issue is cultural. Not just the aviators, but the company as a whole. That's what I was trying to get across in my first post. With the disproportionately high amount of accidents/incidents that are occurring, there must be latent pathogens. In other words, unseen and unsafe conditions that have been allowed to exist and metastasize within your airline, allowing conditions that enable the final human error error that causes an accident. This is not me theorizing here. Google James Reason and do a little bit of reading. Are you saying I'm wrong and fault should be placed squarely at the feet of pilots, tug drivers and mechanics?

By the way, your disclaimer doesn't hold water with me.....It is like saying our soldiers are butchering babies in Iraq......"But I support the troops".

Don't be so unimaginative and un-educated about safety. Just because somebody points out FedEx has a problem doesn't mean they are slandering you, or that its sour grapes over some job interview.

So what so you think the problem is?

Blue Skies,

LJDRVR

 

[SWA/FO]

Good thing this didn't happen at MDW or else people would have blamed Southwest Airlines, their FOM, Pilots & Culture. This thread would be on page 10 by now, with 2 pages devoted to the SWA/FO. imp: (recent pic.)

Speaking of Culture: what is going on at Fed Ex, with that latest CP rant and now this. I thought, that 2 day process was about picking the best? Seems like that lack of flying and flying ability is getting expensive for Fed Ex and its share holders. Looks like the long layovers don't do well for job performace, I'm sure they had more fun on their previous layover then this. :0

$$$$ to burn..

 

[scoreboard]

Here it comes....

 

[Huck]

FedEx has 336 airplanes, UPS 246.

Fedex has ~110 MD10/11's, UPS 22.

(It's my favorite airplane, and I fly it now, but you have to wonder....)

 

[Diesel]

Hey scrapdog you were soooo close. Its called sarcasm. Never applied at fredex. Never needed to. You probably applied but ended up at CAL oh well maybe next time. Well the world needs ditch diggers too.


Looks like we found the, "didn't get the bit guy." at FI.

 

[mdf]

Wait a second! Did she just say "tities"?

 

[Champ42272]

I believe we do significant problems at FDX. It is impossible to have an accident record like ours and not believe we have a systemic problem with safety in flight operations. I believe it boils down to two things:

- Get-there-itis. We push hard every day and every night to get the freight to where it needs to go. Everyone is in GO MODE, regardless of weather, maintenance, ATC and FATIGUE (intentional emphasis). One of the major reasons everyone is in GO MODE is to get to the hotel to get some rest so they can do it again the next night. This was the FedEx corporate culture when the company started, and it remains so today.

- Fatigue. The company will not acknowledge that in any accidents we have had that fatigue played a significant role. People want to get on the ground to stop the pain and get some rest. Flying is challenging enough in the environment we operate in today, doing it on the back side with optimized schedules is pushing everyone to the limits.

Finally, ask yourself why have all the accidents/incidents occurred in the last few years and not in the preceding 25. I would argue that our schedule became optimized (sodomized) with the advent of the new Optimizing Scheduling software. This one item probably has contributed more to the overall fatigue level of the crew force than any other factor.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Champ42272

 

[HA25]

I believe we do significant problems at FDX. It is impossible to have an accident record like ours and not believe we have a systemic problem with safety in flight operations.

Like I said before, surely the POI must be scratching his head? That kind of record can't be covered over even by the FAA..

And clearly it has nothing to do with the skill or training of the pilots, but more of a culture of "Get it done" no matter what.

 

[HA25]

Hey scrapdog you were soooo close. Its called sarcasm. Never applied at fredex. Never needed to. You probably applied but ended up at CAL oh well maybe next time. Well the world needs ditch diggers too.


Looks like we found the, "didn't get the bit guy." at FI.

Don't mind him, he's not typical of Mil guys I know.. in many ways. He's the type that just gives them a bad name.