Fedex plane runs off runway at ORD

[HA25]

glad to see (gives me hope) that I am indeed not alone in my views..

Amazing to see how coarse our culture has gotten...

 

[Tejas-Jet]

And they even hire people with less than honorable discharges from the Airforce I'm finding out..

OK...let's not make one or two people out to be an epidemic.

Folks do make mistakes in their youth. Sometimes as they mature, they can see how and why they made that mistake and they correct that behavior....and they take the time to discuss it in an interview and show how they learned from that mistake.

I know of people that have crashed an airplane that fly for major arilines today....they explained what happened...and that explaination was acccepted.

Have you never made a mistake in judgement?

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I had an honorable discharge, she didn't and clearly her gender play a big role in her getting this job more so than any AirForce background.

Anddddd.....she got hired and...you didn't? Look, if oyu weren't sitting in on that interview, or in the decision phase, then you really don't know how or why she was hired. Ever think it might have been because how she presented herself in the interview?

I guess in your world, every single woman and minority that interviews gets hired? Got new for you, sport....it doesn't happen.

Now I guess, you think that ALL the ones who get turned down file lawsuits.

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Sorry if I come off as a bit of a pre-madona on this, but I sadly suffer from something called "a set of absolutes" that I live by.

Geez...So I guess that forgiveness is not part of your "absolutes" that you live by. Seeing a person make positive changes in their lives is not something you ever want to see or would even tolerate...

OK....I'm getting the picture. WWJD?

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

that there are 100 applicants for every job in our industry, and they hired her anyway since clearly she was a "she".

But maybe you dont' care if people have any moral fiber that you fly with, my fault.

How do you know that she was hired becasue she was a "she"? I ask again, were you part of the interview and /or decision process? If not, then you really don't know how/why she was hired.

And concerning the "moral fiber" that you speak of....so if you fly with a pilot that you know "fools around"....you gonna get off the trip?

Again, people make mistakes, some make the effort to correct those mistakes, and I for one, am thrilled to see this woman flying where she is now...because it tells me that she did indeed correct her behavior.

Tejas

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I can tell you honestly that after leaving the Army in 1993 I had no sexual relations with anyone .

Not even with yourself ??? ...And you're an Army guy??? You should've said that from the beginning.....now I'm starting to understand. Did you also wear one of those funny braided ropes on your khaki uniform?

How'd you like those MRE's? I heard that even the Kurds in 1991 couldn't stand eating the MRE's.

Army....I'm starting to get the picture now....

Tejas

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

It's lame especially when people address a woman they don't even know as a "hag".

But its OK for her to call a guy she doesn't know a "prik".

Whatever.

 

[AC560]

I just don't see how it's anyone's business who someone sleeps with in the first place.

If you were to cheat on your spouse and I caught you, what do you think I could get you to do in order to keep that information quiet. If you were responsible for nuclear ordinance, national secrets, etc. can you see where the concern might exist?

If you promise before your spouse, family, and God to be faithful and you break that vow; should somebody not be concerned about your ability to keep other secrets or vows?

I have no opinion on whether the lady in question should have gotten a job or not. I do think there are good reasons behind the rules the military has in most cases, if you can't serve with honor and distinction; don't serve at all.

 

[Oh-ryan]

Your wife should consider herself lucky being with someone who doesn't cheat. I don't cheat either and unfortunately, I feel that you and I are in the minority. I agree with the rest of your post BTW. I don't agree with disobeying orders in the service but I still don't think it's anyone's business who one sleeps with.

BTW, thanks for sticking up for me (somewhat) on the SWA thread.

Capt,
In addition to the post about the UCMJ regulations from Falconjet (post #86), in the military it is very much the business of the chain of command who you are sleeping with. In the most basic example:

An Ops boss not letting a female pilot (who he is treating to a tube steak dinner every night) fly a specific mission because of the risks involved, but chooses some other pilot, thus ensuring his bishop gets polished for at least one more night.

That is why bosses are not allowed to sleep with subordinates in the military.

Now that we cleared that up... I didn't know you could say tits and titties on flightinfo.com... hehehe... titties... hehehehe

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I enjoy a good "tar and feather" FI session as much as the next guy but years ago I was aware of literally a dozen similar situations in the USAF involving guys porking other dudes' wives (subordinates, superiors ... it ran the spectrum) and each one of these guys were eventually promoted and given desirable follow-on assignments (fighters ... what have you). So as much as I'd enjoy ganging on to this little pile of moral indignation I just can't in good conscience.

I say let's get our moral compasses realigned and talk about beer and hooters like civil airline pilots! Mega in stockings! (I heard she's smokin' AND smart!)

BBB

 

[Falconjet]

Smokin: I'd love to see it.

Smart: Not from what I've read from her on these boards.

Not that I have a problem with that. I'd much rather have smokin than smart anyday.

I'd like to see some proof of the smokin part though.

FJ

 

[Aviator7576]

smokin'

Falcon...

I have seen her and she makes the brown uniform look GOOD! 'Nuff said...

Aviator7576

 

[Falconjet]

Falcon...

I have seen her and she makes the brown uniform look GOOD! 'Nuff said...

Aviator7576

Man that has got to be hard to do.

Good to hear. The world needs more good looking women pilots!

Probably more good looking male pilots too.

Sorry I can't help much in that regard, but some have said I have a nice personality.

FJ

 

[HA25]

Falcon...

I have seen her and she makes the brown uniform look GOOD! 'Nuff said...

Aviator7576

Exactly! You're making my point even more with comments like that.

I mean am I the only one who doesn't see anything wrong with giving someone a pass like that just because she was a hot white woman and looks good in the uniform? For God's sake guys, you sound like a bunch of teen age women drooling over Tom Cruz in Top Gun!

If it were a black guy or a less than attractive or over weight woman, do you think the same would have been done? Stop.. don't answer that, it doesn't matter what you "think".

 

[milplt]

I enjoy a good "tar and feather" FI session as much as the next guy but years ago I was aware of literally a dozen similar situations in the USAF involving guys porking other dudes' wives (subordinates, superiors ... it ran the spectrum) and each one of these guys were eventually promoted and given desirable follow-on assignments (fighters ... what have you). So as much as I'd enjoy ganging on to this little pile of moral indignation I just can't in good conscience.

...

BBB

Just because the commanders that you are speaking of didn't have the fortitude to enforce UCMJ, that doesn't mean no commander should. Unfortunately, UCMJ is enforced by individuals who may or may not do what is right - and the entire system of regulations should not be discarded due to the inaction of some.

 

[Marko Ramius]

Tom Cruz .

Is that the guy who married Kaytee Homzs?

 

[HA25]

Is that the guy who married Kaytee Homzs?

Katie Holmes, yes.. boy you must be pretty young. Don't remember Top Gun?

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Katie Holmes, yes.. boy you must be pretty young. Don't remember Top Gun?

Uh ... I think that one flew right over your head Mr. Nostalgia. :smash:

I thought it was rather clever MR!

BBB

 

[HA25]

Uh ... I think that one flew right over your head Mr. Nostalgia. :smash:

I thought it was rather clever MR!

BBB

Indeed..

 

[Aviator7576]

V70T5...

Lighten up Frances...get off your high horse and enjoy a lighthearted comment...from what I've heard there are no complaints about Mega's flying skills ...so I can dish out a compliment that in no way disparages her flying abilities and compliments her looks at the same time...would you prefer I say she is the ugliest woman I have ever seen with wings?(absolutely not the case, that honor belongs to one of my primary students who did get jets...)...some people can actually fly the airplane and not look half bad in the sort over a cup of coffee....

JMO

Aviator7576

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Just because the commanders that you are speaking of didn't have the fortitude to enforce UCMJ, that doesn't mean no commander should. Unfortunately, UCMJ is enforced by individuals who may or may not do what is right - and the entire system of regulations should not be discarded due to the inaction of some.

Hang with me milplt ... if I'm just one individual with knowledge of at least a dozen injustices involving men (vs women) just imagine if we extrapolated that out Air Force wide. Perhaps reality suggests this is a massive, systemic culture of "looking the other way" when it involves men vs women ... just one poor slob's opinion.

I have no reason to believe the rate of adultery is one iota less in the military than it is in society in general, the UCMJ and its supposed penalties against such behavior notwithstanding.

BBB

 

[instructordude]

]I

can tell you honestly that after leaving the Army in 1993 I had no sexual relations with anyone until meeting my wife in 1996 and while I'm tempted, I've never even flirted

[/B].

You're a liar. What about your right hand?

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I can tell you honestly that after leaving the Army in 1993 I had no sexual relations with anyone until meeting my wife in 1996 and while I'm tempted, I've never even flirted.

Oh Caveman ... I think I've found your problem! That's a mighty long time not to fire the old cannon. One can only polish and admire one's armament so long. Such weapons must be exercised in battle frequently and fired often for optimal force projection. Sitting on the sidelines for several years observing other cannons firing mightily tends to warp the barrel and cloud the judgment of the artillery commander!

BBB

 

[HA25]

Ok guys, I can admit it.. I failed to remain faithful to myself a few times in those 3 years.. but to be truthful, with a full load at the U, full time pilot training, and a part time job fueling graveyard at Signature Flight Support, I didn't exactly have anytime for much else..

 

[HA25]

V70T5...

Lighten up Frances...get off your high horse and enjoy a lighthearted comment...from what I've heard there are no complaints about Mega's flying skills ...so I can dish out a compliment that in no way disparages her flying abilities and compliments her looks at the same time...would you prefer I say she is the ugliest woman I have ever seen with wings?(absolutely not the case, that honor belongs to one of my primary students who did get jets...)...some people can actually fly the airplane and not look half bad in the sort over a cup of coffee....

JMO

Aviator7576

I can lighten up with the best of them, don't worry about me, but when it comes to this particular situation with the aforementioned B-52 pilot and UPS new-hire, I get a bit miffed at all of the drooling and selective looking the other way at a significant shortcoming (the old DD214) that so many "professionals" here seem to want to provide her, that's all.

I ask again, if it were a black guy, or fat chick... would we be having this debate?

Jest on..

 

[Hagar17]

Why isn't UPS having these problems? And they even hire people with less than honorable discharges from the Airforce I'm finding out..

oops....

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Ok guys, I can admit it.. I failed to remain faithful to myself a few times in those 3 years..

Listen everybody, giving yourself a "low five" is perfectly normal and acceptable in our society.

 

[flyboyike]

These accidents are mostly attributable to latent organizational pathogens and other cultural issues.

I haven't the foggiest what that means, but, man, sounds beautiful!

 

[Occam's Razor]

How do you know that she was hired becasue she was a "she"?

You make a good point. We have no idea if the decision to hire her was influenced by gender. We can look, circumstantially, at the evidence we do have that suggests she was treated differently than many of us would have been. Namely , we know she didn't have an Honorable Discharge from the military.

I think a lot of us would consider that a red flag in the process. What do you think?

And concerning the "moral fiber" that you speak of....so if you fly with a pilot that you know "fools around"....you gonna get off the trip?

Apples and bananas. Her obligation to good order and discipline was a 24/7 requirement in the military. Furthermore, she knew that when she raised her right hand and swore the oath.

We did not take an oath to be an airline pilot, nor do we have a 24/7 obligation to abide by the chain-of-command. When we are "off the job", we are off the job. The list of things we can't do during that time, and still function properly mostly relate to items we can't injest...

Being in the military is different than being an airline pilot. The rules are different even if the personalities and the mission are similar.

Again, people make mistakes, some make the effort to correct those mistakes, and I for one, am thrilled to see this woman flying where she is now...because it tells me that she did indeed correct her behavior.

I believe in redemption. I hope she has turned her life around and is making good choices. I also think her "I'm a victim!" bit was lame.

 

[Aviator7576]

Occam...

Good analysis and good post...BZ...

Aviator7576