F9/RAH meeting

[SWA/FO]

Delta sucks.

 

[En Mort Main]

As has already been discussed this meeting never happened...but once again shows how sore WN is about losing F9. A substantial portion of the posters on this thread have been WN personnel conjucturing on the down fall of RAH and how everyone is so screwwed up and misinformed outside the WN family. ..and somehow WN personel even begin to take shots at how "stupid" DL is for leaving LBB anfd MAF...which I thought was a little off topic.
Now in reality F9 is soon to be accepting 3 new Airbus A320 in the spring of 2010. In addition to the new Airbus aircraft additional E190's will be going to RW. With those aircraft F9 and RW will both be poised to hopefully start recalling the furloughed crews.
But again this is only what I hear when paying attention to reality as opposed to reading a post some idiot on flight info posted about ficticious meetings.


En Mort Main

 

[General Lee]

Oh I get it, the SWA pilots owe DAL a huge favor for all the work they did to improve our quality of life and pay. Well I thought I got it but now that I said it, it is total lunacy......from who else.......THE GENERAL!

It is called "piggy backing"--which is GOOD for all of us. We had the best rates at the time (pre-9-11 and for a couple years after), and SWAPA used them to bring up their own pay and benefits. Let me guess, you weren't at SWA at the time? Probably not. Now we all know why you are a bit "foggy" on the situation... Well, at least you get to go to LBB now with high payrates.....enjoy it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

For whatever reason I will explain the history behind "what I heard" about the deal.

Stemmler is your FAPA president correct? He bargains for you correct? BB bargains for RAH.

Long before the WN deal came up F9 was bankrupt. RAH via Brian Bedford was breathing life into F9 via DIP financing. RAH decided to BUY F9, not give them a loan. Part of the discussion about purchase had to do with the pilots union. Bedford and Stemmler did in fact meet, negotiate a contract to be opened AFTER the deal, and go about their ways. Said contract had fence agreements, pay rates and job protection for Frontier pilots.

Then SWA got involved and made a bid. RAH saw the deal starting to unravel and raised the anti. Stemmler already new what he had negotiated with RAH and decided to play poker with SWAPA and shoot for the moon.

The deal fell apart and it is what it is.

Call me a whacko but this is the EXACT story given to me by a fairly senior Frontier captain who happens to be a friend of mine. He may not have the story straight but I trust what he says - therefore it's my story.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Gup

So A-cup, you wanted your friend the F9 Captain to be your junior FO at SWA, right? That is what you wanted, right A-cup? You didn't want to give HIM respect for what he had earned with years of service at F9, and instead wanted a staple for your "friend?" I am not talking about DOH, but something showing loyalty towards a company? Have you told him that? He would probably slap you across the mouth and call you a "beotch."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[johnsonrod]

So A-cup, you wanted your friend the F9 Captain to be your junior FO at SWA, right? That is what you wanted, right A-cup? You didn't want to give HIM respect for what he had earned with years of service at F9, and instead wanted a staple for your "friend?" I am not talking about DOH, but something showing loyalty towards a company? Have you told him that? He would probably slap you across the mouth and call you a "beotch."


Bye Bye--General Lee

That is quite funny. I wonder how Gup will respond? Did that guy know about your wishes for Frontier? Would he still be your friend if he did know? Inquiring minds and all...

 

[johnsonrod]

It is called "piggy backing"--which is GOOD for all of us. We had the best rates at the time (pre-9-11 and for a couple years after), and SWAPA used them to bring up their own pay and benefits. Let me guess, you weren't at SWA at the time? Probably not. Now we all know why you are a bit "foggy" on the situation... Well, at least you get to go to LBB now with high payrates.....enjoy it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I think most people know that you guys had the highest rates for awhile, and probably a lot of airlines tried to copy them. He probably was flying his military heavies around the world and didn't really notice.

 

[FlyinGuy]

No general I am not "foggy" on the situation. I am well aware of how the system works. If you would not have caved into your management and gave them concessions, then I shutter at what my pay rate would be now. It works both ways. Remember that the only reason that we have "industry leading rates" is because everyone else came falling off the mountain. So thanks for "piggy backing" me to a lower retirement.

 

[General Lee]

No general I am not "foggy" on the situation. I am well aware of how the system works. If you would not have caved into your management and gave them concessions, then I shutter at what my pay rate would be now. It works both ways. Remember that the only reason that we have "industry leading rates" is because everyone else came falling off the mountain. So thanks for "piggy backing" me to a lower retirement.

Caved? You mean to the BK judge? You have never been in front of one I suppose. Guess what genius? They don't really care what you want. You need to brush up on your history and actually be "informed". And let me guess again? You invest in ostrich farms, right? The ones outside of LBB I bet. You are a genius.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[FlyinGuy]

Very clever Mr. Johnson Rod. Let's look at peoples profiles and try to come up with something real interesting but totally irrelevant.


Like, oh, let me see.......Maybe Mr. Johnson Rod was too busy trying to pass his PPL to even notice that DAL had the highest pay rates.

 

[FlyinGuy]

You are right I have never been in front of a BK judge and I never will thanks to DAL raising my pay rates. I almost forgot to say thanks!

 

[FlyinGuy]

......

 

[General Lee]

Very clever Mr. Johnson Rod. Let's look at peoples profiles and try to come up with something real interesting but totally irrelevant.


Like, oh, let me see.......Maybe Mr. Johnson Rod was too busy trying to pass his PPL to even notice that DAL had the highest pay rates.

Now you are going after a regional pilot, probably because you never had to do that yourself. It is called "entitlement", and a lot of you SWA guys have it. We used to have that at Delta too, and thank gawd a lot of those "old" guys have retired. You are making yourself and SWA pilots look bad, again.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[johnsonrod]

Very clever Mr. Johnson Rod. Let's look at peoples profiles and try to come up with something real interesting but totally irrelevant.


Like, oh, let me see.......Maybe Mr. Johnson Rod was too busy trying to pass his PPL to even notice that DAL had the highest pay rates.

I was being truthful, thinking maybe you were out serving this country. And no, I wasn't getting my PPL at the time, rather I was instructing and trying to build my hours the hard way. It was very tough, and I still haven't hit the motherload, but I am hoping to someday. Thanks for your support.

 

[General Lee]

You are right I have never been in front of a BK judge and I never will thanks to DAL raising my pay rates. I almost forgot to say thanks!

Talk about cocky. This is getting funny. Hey, one more overshoot at MDW or BUR, or another MX scandal and you could be facing one yourself. You never know, but one thing you haven't learned yet is NEVER SAY NEVER. This may come back to haunt you someday. And, your reckless manner already shows all of us that you probably will face personal BK someday anyway.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I was being truthful, thinking maybe you were out serving this country. And no, I wasn't getting my PPL at the time, rather I was instructing and trying to build my hours the hard way. It was very tough, and I still haven't hit the motherload, but I am hoping to someday. Thanks for your support.

Hey, don't read into what he says, he thinks he is priviledged. At least he is now working harder with 5-6 legs a day than he did lugging C-5As around. It must be tough on him.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Full of LUV]

Thanks for no retirement....

No general I am not "foggy" on the situation. I am well aware of how the system works. If you would not have caved into your management and gave them concessions, then I shutter at what my pay rate would be now. It works both ways. Remember that the only reason that we have "industry leading rates" is because everyone else came falling off the mountain. So thanks for "piggy backing" me to a lower retirement.

Actually, Flyin, most of the major pilots have to thank the likes of SWA and other 401K lovin companies for the "lower retirement" in the form of abolished or frozen A funds throughout the industry. The bar could only be held for so long before the industry finds a way to normalize. Unfortunately that was at the hands of a BK judge.

 

[N1atEcon]

but once again shows how sore WN is about losing F9

I have not met one fellow pilot that is sore about RAH winning the auction. After it went down everyone was like "whew, thank god we don't have to go down that road." I.E. Abritration and SLI. It was business as usually. We just had a good laugh when our Union posted the time table of events and how FAPA wouldn't return SWAPA's calls. That is where the conspiracy theories came from between FAPA and Bedford. That is also why we laugh when you all speak off your "agreements in priciple." In this business that is like saying you have a big roll of toilet paper with writing on it.

 

[GuppyWN]

So A-cup, you wanted your friend the F9 Captain to be your junior FO at SWA, right? That is what you wanted, right A-cup? You didn't want to give HIM respect for what he had earned with years of service at F9, and instead wanted a staple for your "friend?" I am not talking about DOH, but something showing loyalty towards a company? Have you told him that? He would probably slap you across the mouth and call you a "beotch."


Bye Bye--General Lee

My loyalty is EXACTLY where it belongs - with my WN brothers.

My ultimate goal was integration with huge weight for SWA. Something along the lines of their #1 being our #1 FO and ratioing from there leaving the already furloughed and the surplus as, well, furloughed.

Secondary was staple.

Thirly was DOH.

In no way did I, would I, or will I agree to relative seniority with a bankrupt carrier. Period.

My buddy didn't want to be stapled and I didn't want to jerk gear for him. We left it at that.

And yes we are still friends because we know that neither one of us makes airline policy and life decisions for the other.

Gup

 

[N1atEcon]

Just curious why this has thread has gone three more pages and know one can answer my simple questions. Since you all are rolling in $$$$$$$$$$$ now you don't have time to answer?

Don't forget that Frontier has been profitable for nearly 9 months straight, and that was accomplished by using the Airbus flown by F9 pilots.

1. At what pay rates were the F9 pilots at during this 9 months, was that after the concessions?
2. Were you getting a 401k match?
3. What has the price of fuel been the last 9 months? I believe it was in the mid thirtys for a while.

 

[General Lee]

My loyalty is EXACTLY where it belongs - with my WN brothers.

My ultimate goal was integration with huge weight for SWA. Something along the lines of their #1 being our #1 FO and ratioing from there leaving the already furloughed and the surplus as, well, furloughed.

Secondary was staple.

Thirly was DOH.

In no way did I, would I, or will I agree to relative seniority with a bankrupt carrier. Period.

My buddy didn't want to be stapled and I didn't want to jerk gear for him. We left it at that.

And yes we are still friends because we know that neither one of us makes airline policy and life decisions for the other.

Gup

Wow, sounds like you are a "great friend." Let me guess, he doesn't know you are on here? He wouldn't be your friend if he did. And, it isn't only about airline policy, but rather whether or not it was fair---and the way you actually think matters to any friendship. If your friend thought it was FAIR to go to an arbitrator, why would you disagree with him? Isn't a "Neutral" neutral? If the neutral saw it the way you and the others do, then you would have NOTHING to worry about. The truth is you and your pals don't want to be fair, or to have a chance for someone to give a fair ruling. You want to be numero uno, period, which isn't very friendly.


Bye Bye--General Lee