F9/RAH meeting

[Hose A. Jiminez]

copied from a couple other forums:


Heard from my friend (shuttle plilot with R) about meeting last week between RAH management and F9 Reps. The meeting only lasted a few minutes. The guy running the meeting was Republics' COO. Told F9 reps that there was no fence in place to protect Frontier Pillots.

Frontier demanded seniority integration and fence they were promissed by Bedford. Argument started in which RAH reps were no $hit yelling at F9. Frontier reps quietly got up and walked out of meeting.

After F9 left, I guess Republic management started talking about time table for Airbus to 190's conversion. My buddy also said the jets would likely be modified (just like the others) to keep them below 100 seat capacity. The company MEL's a single seat belt and removes it from the last row of the airplane.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

1. Did this really happen?

2. I know it couldnt be done thru MEL, but does RAH really keep aircraft under 100 seats for contract payrate purposes? (that was indicated in later posts)

 

[Skybus]

F9

Guess the sound of a stapler would sound pretty good about now??

Once upon a time there was a little airline called Muse. SW decided they did not wish to have a competitor in their home "fortress" of Love Field. So.. Herb in the boys decided they would buy and eliminate the competition. Sat down with the "boys" at Muse to discuss an "integration" ie: staple job but a job none the less at a much more stable company with a higher pay rate. Well the Muse boys would have none of that. Thought they were in a position of power holding out for an integrated list. Well the rest is history. How did THAT work out for Muse? How will this work out for the F9 folks? Only time will tell but me thinks a very similar fate.

There was once an Ole geezer from AMA running for Gov. of the Republic of Texas. As he so famously stated which lost him the election...

If it is inevitable.....lay down and enjoy it.

Bus

 

[StaySeated]

copied from a couple other forums:


Heard from my friend (shuttle plilot with R) about meeting last week between RAH management and F9 Reps. The meeting only lasted a few minutes. The guy running the meeting was Republics' COO. Told F9 reps that there was no fence in place to protect Frontier Pillots.

Frontier demanded seniority integration and fence they were promissed by Bedford. Argument started in which RAH reps were no $hit yelling at F9. Frontier reps quietly got up and walked out of meeting.

After F9 left, I guess Republic management started talking about time table for Airbus to 190's conversion. My buddy also said the jets would likely be modified (just like the others) to keep them below 100 seat capacity. The company MEL's a single seat belt and removes it from the last row of the airplane.

That is a fascinating story, but it never happened. The meeting never happened, the airbus "conversion", the entire story is inaccurate.

 

[SWA/FO]

Everything is going great at RAH aka F9...nothing to see here move along. They will get everything Bedfors has promised them! :cartman:

 

[samballs]

Funny how Midwest pilots thought the airtran deal was garbage. Now you have the F9 pilots who thought the WN deal was a gabage deal. Both groups thought about today and not tomorrow, now they'll be regional pilots making half the play

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

My intent was not to start the "should'a would'a could'a" on SWA/F9. I'm just trying to get an accurate as possible picture of what Bryan Bedford is intent on doing. My concern does not lie with the well being of the F9 guys, but with that of the rest of us in the industry. If this seeming Frank Lorenzo clone is able to continue to piece together failing airline after failing airline, and replace the well paid pilots with his, who for some reason are more than willing to work for obscenely pitiful rates, we are all in trouble.

 

[likeitis]

Funny how Midwest pilots thought the airtran deal was garbage. Now you have the F9 pilots who thought the WN deal was a gabage deal. Both groups thought about today and not tomorrow, now they'll be regional pilots making half the play

Not really. The Midwest pilots for the most part were for the AirTran deal. We saw the possibility of it actually happening because of our knowledge of the managements ethics pretty slim. The MEC jumped on the bandwagon of Midwest management because of their determination that the deal was not possible and by backing management would possible get better results in section 6. No matter what stance the MEC took wouldn't have decided the outcome. AirTran had I believe 3 members on the Midwest board and all 3 voted for the TPG/NWA deal.

 

[Minimaniac]

The meeting in question never happened, but your buddy did sow a few seeds of truth in there.

Our COO does have quite a temper, and has some very inappropriate outbursts in the past. Bedford plays good cop, Heller plays the bad cop.

But remember, fences and all the jazz are negotiated between the unions. Our management will not make the final decisions about integration or fences. Heller can yell all he wants, but it means nothing.

Not a single airbus has been pulled from service, nor has there been any plan to pull the Airbus from service in any quantity.

Don't forget that Frontier has been profitable for nearly 9 months straight, and that was accomplished by using the Airbus flown by F9 pilots. Bedford has zero reason to mess with that. A few planes are being put on different routes, but that is mostly to put the correct size equipment on certain key Midwest routes. Some 190's are replacing Airbuses on specific Frontier routes, but those replaced Airbuses are just working a little further east.

What happened to Midwest pilots will not happen to Frontier pilots because Frontier pilots have airplanes to fly until integration happens, and will most likely stay on those airplanes after integration.

 

[Minimaniac]

Why Frontier did not take up the deal by SWAPA:

1. There was not enough time to work out a fair agreement.

2. Frontier pilots stood a much better chance at maintaining their known QOL with Republic, including maintaining pay, employment, and base (for most pilots)

3. Given more time, F9 pilots may have felt better about and understand the offers made by SWAPA.

 

[N1atEcon]

Don't forget that Frontier has been profitable for nearly 9 months straight, and that was accomplished by using the Airbus flown by F9 pilots.

1. At what pay rates were the F9 pilots at during this 9 months, was that after the concessions?
2. Were you getting a 401k match?
3. What has the price of fuel been the last 9 months? I believe it was in the mid thirtys for a while.

 

[FlyWolf]

Don't know, maybe because I have been burned way too many times in the past, but I would have taken the stable and a seniority number at SWA, but what do I know..

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Again, the merits of the SWA offer, or the wisdom of Stemmler and his buddy for turning it down, was not the topic of my intent.

Whether it was good for the F9 guys or not is moot at this point. It is obvious that it would have been a better deal for the industry as a whole from a pilot stand point, in that it would have prevented further spread of RJ flying, and the guys who are OK with flying them an obscenely inadequate pay rates.

We should all hope now that should F9 be able to continue to profit now that it is out of bankruptcy, that it will be run separately. That will be the only hope of keeping some semblance of livable pay.

 

[General Lee]

I think the F9 pilots won in the end, because ANYTHING is better than having LBB or MAF layovers.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GOULET!]

The integration between Republic/Midwest/Frontier will be about as smooth as America West/US Air.

 

[General Lee]

The integration between Republic/Midwest/Frontier will be about as smooth as America West/US Air.

Don't forget about the Lynx guys. They have more airplanes flying now than the Midwest guys. That may be important when an arbitrator looks at this.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Whine Lover]

My intent was not to start the "should'a would'a could'a" on SWA/F9. I'm just trying to get an accurate as possible picture of what Bryan Bedford is intent on doing. My concern does not lie with the well being of the F9 guys, but with that of the rest of us in the industry. If this seeming Frank Lorenzo clone is able to continue to piece together failing airline after failing airline, and replace the well paid pilots with his, who for some reason are more than willing to work for obscenely pitiful rates, we are all in trouble.

I think you just asked, and answered, your own question in the above.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

I think the F9 pilots won in the end, because ANYTHING is better than having LBB or MAF layovers.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Anything?

Even out-sourcing---> stagnation---> job loss? That's the price you paid to avoid that LBB overnite.

I'm sure SWA would love to outsourse that flying. Contractually they cant.

 

[RedDogC130]

Why Frontier did not take up the deal by SWAPA:

1. There was not enough time to work out a fair agreement.

2. Frontier pilots stood a much better chance at maintaining their known QOL with Republic, including maintaining pay, employment, and base (for most pilots)

3. Given more time, F9 pilots may have felt better about and understand the offers made by SWAPA.

The whole thing was for Gary Kelly to get a look into Frontier's books to see how they do things in DEN....plain and simple....he knew the deal was dead in the water and "stood by" the pilots to look good and make a good gesture.

 

[General Lee]

Anything?

Even out-sourcing---> stagnation---> job loss? That's the price you paid to avoid that LBB overnite.

I'm sure SWA would love to outsourse that flying. Contractually they cant.

We did lose some of those LBB and MAF layovers that we used to have on the 732, but in the meantime we added over 100 INTL destinations (compared to back in the late 80s when we went to LBB etc), and plenty of other domestic cities. And, to top it off, we are currently getting rid of some of that out-sourcing--in the form of 50 seat RJs going away. If you and your company still want to go to LBB and MAF, then good for you. A lot of those resources that went to those cities for us (732s) are gone now, and we are using other assets in other places to drum up potential profits. Regardless, you are still flying there, and I don't envy you.


Bye Bye--General Lee