F9/RAH meeting

[General Lee]

The integration between Republic/Midwest/Frontier will be about as smooth as America West/US Air.

Don't forget about the Lynx guys. They have more airplanes flying now than the Midwest guys. That may be important when an arbitrator looks at this.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Whine Lover]

My intent was not to start the "should'a would'a could'a" on SWA/F9. I'm just trying to get an accurate as possible picture of what Bryan Bedford is intent on doing. My concern does not lie with the well being of the F9 guys, but with that of the rest of us in the industry. If this seeming Frank Lorenzo clone is able to continue to piece together failing airline after failing airline, and replace the well paid pilots with his, who for some reason are more than willing to work for obscenely pitiful rates, we are all in trouble.

I think you just asked, and answered, your own question in the above.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

I think the F9 pilots won in the end, because ANYTHING is better than having LBB or MAF layovers.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Anything?

Even out-sourcing---> stagnation---> job loss? That's the price you paid to avoid that LBB overnite.

I'm sure SWA would love to outsourse that flying. Contractually they cant.

 

[RedDogC130]

Why Frontier did not take up the deal by SWAPA:

1. There was not enough time to work out a fair agreement.

2. Frontier pilots stood a much better chance at maintaining their known QOL with Republic, including maintaining pay, employment, and base (for most pilots)

3. Given more time, F9 pilots may have felt better about and understand the offers made by SWAPA.

The whole thing was for Gary Kelly to get a look into Frontier's books to see how they do things in DEN....plain and simple....he knew the deal was dead in the water and "stood by" the pilots to look good and make a good gesture.

 

[General Lee]

Anything?

Even out-sourcing---> stagnation---> job loss? That's the price you paid to avoid that LBB overnite.

I'm sure SWA would love to outsourse that flying. Contractually they cant.

We did lose some of those LBB and MAF layovers that we used to have on the 732, but in the meantime we added over 100 INTL destinations (compared to back in the late 80s when we went to LBB etc), and plenty of other domestic cities. And, to top it off, we are currently getting rid of some of that out-sourcing--in the form of 50 seat RJs going away. If you and your company still want to go to LBB and MAF, then good for you. A lot of those resources that went to those cities for us (732s) are gone now, and we are using other assets in other places to drum up potential profits. Regardless, you are still flying there, and I don't envy you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

If it were a one for one trade (LBB for say CDG) then Id be with you. You have a net loss of mainline flying due to codesharing. Fewer pilots on the DAL list. New destinations have not kept up with what you have given away. Great that you added 100+ intl destinations. You should have kept LBB and MAF and stopped the spread of "C" scale pilots whoring themselves out and diminishing your(our) leverage during contract time. If SWA starts service from AMA to Pampa in a 402, it will be flown by a SWAPA pilot getting paid SWAPA negotiated rates, or it wont fly. Thats the way it is for us and the way it should be for DAL and everyone else. Dont pretend not to know that this has harmed the pilot profession. No one can be that stupid. There is no way for you to win this debate.

 

[FlyinGuy]

The generals male ex-lover must be from LBB.....

 

[StaySeated]

Why Frontier did not take up the deal by SWAPA:

1. There was not enough time to work out a fair agreement.

2. Frontier pilots stood a much better chance at maintaining their known QOL with Republic, including maintaining pay, employment, and base (for most pilots)

3. Given more time, F9 pilots may have felt better about and understand the offers made by SWAPA.

Ok. Lets try this again, for the last and final time.

There was no deal to "take up". Period. End of story.

SWAPA and FAPA were negotiating an integration, and the negotiations required an extension from the court along with a modification in the SWA bid itself.

Neither one of those things occurred, so there was no "choice" by FAPA. Even if everyone would have jumped at the staple, the SWA bid was not a qualified bid.

Why is this so hard to understand?

To say that "Given more time, F9 pilots may have felt better about and understand the offers made by SWAPA" is also false. SWAPA made one offer, and FAPA made one counter. There was agreement on several issues, but there was no "misunderstanding" on any of the remaining issues. The plan was for both parties to meet again the next day and possibly over the weekend but those meetings never occurred due to the fact that SWA pulled their bid.

This is like one of those stories that never dies, and the longer it lives the farther and farther it creeps from reality.

 

[GuppyWN]

If it were a one for one trade (LBB for say CDG) then Id be with you. You have a net loss of mainline flying due to codesharing. Fewer pilots on the DAL list. New destinations have not kept up with what you have given away. Great that you added 100+ intl destinations. You should have kept LBB and MAF and stopped the spread of "C" scale pilots whoring themselves out and diminishing your(our) leverage during contract time. If SWA starts service from AMA to Pampa in a 402, it will be flown by a SWAPA pilot getting paid SWAPA negotiated rates, or it wont fly. Thats the way it is for us and the way it should be for DAL and everyone else. Dont pretend not to know that this has harmed the pilot profession. No one can be that stupid. There is no way for you to win this debate.

Ding ding ding! But don't think you'll stop the Genital from at least arguing with you.

Ask him how much of his coveted international flying Delta North is paring next year.

Gup

 

[StaySeated]

The whole thing was for Gary Kelly to get a look into Frontier's books to see how they do things in DEN....plain and simple....he knew the deal was dead in the water and "stood by" the pilots to look good and make a good gesture.

I have seen that book as well.

Chapter 1. Person buys a ticket
Chapter 2. Person presents that ticket to a somewhat bitter gate agent and boards a plane with an animal on the tail.
Chapter 3. That same plane is filled with other people, and the big door in the front is closed.
Chapter 4. Plane makes noise, flies from denver to another city.
Chapter 5. Ticket buyers exit
Chapter 6. repeat chapters 1-5

F9 was publicly held, between the SEC and the DOT, I can't think of any "book" that may shed light on the operation better than the required filings. I only wish there was such a book and that Jeff Potter would have read the thing from cover to cover.

 

[f9cougar]

Iwant a better story!

 

[shearedshaft]

Ok. Lets try this again, for the last and final time.

There was no deal to "take up". Period. End of story.

SWAPA and FAPA were negotiating an integration, and the negotiations required an extension from the court along with a modification in the SWA bid itself.

Neither one of those things occurred, so there was no "choice" by FAPA. Even if everyone would have jumped at the staple, the SWA bid was not a qualified bid.

Why is this so hard to understand?

To say that "Given more time, F9 pilots may have felt better about and understand the offers made by SWAPA" is also false. SWAPA made one offer, and FAPA made one counter. There was agreement on several issues, but there was no "misunderstanding" on any of the remaining issues. The plan was for both parties to meet again the next day and possibly over the weekend but those meetings never occurred due to the fact that SWA pulled their bid.

This is like one of those stories that never dies, and the longer it lives the farther and farther it creeps from reality.

This is whitewash. The reason so many of us have our popcorn out, waiting for the train wreck is that it is clear in my opinion, that Stemmler made a deal with the devil, I mean Bryan Bedford weeks before the auction even occurred. He did it without a vote of the membership. Again, in my opinion? Stemmler had already made the choice for everyone. That's why there was no serious negotiating, no return telephone calls and MIA the day after.

Your revisionist history makes me salivate all that much more for my front seat view of your career getting "loved" by the Teamsters and Bedford.

Why do all the Frontier guys hop around the point that there was a meeting between Stemmler and Bedford and a whole deal was made in advance of the auction?

Did you not know that? I can't imagine that. Do you think it's something so private that you can't mention it? Aren't you proud of it? I mean, he "saved" you by doing this, why aren't you bragging about it?

 

[GuppyWN]

My brother shearedshaft tells the same story I have heard - except I heard it from my old sim partner at F9 who's been there over 10 years.

Gup

 

[StaySeated]

Stemmler made a deal with Bedford? Huh? I mean, do you guys really believe this lunacy? I have read some stupid things on FI before but this has developed an entirely new level of stupid.

How in the F could two people make a deal outside of the UCC? You do realize that there were several members of the UCC, each of which was owed millions, some hundreds of millions of dollars.

Then there is the problem with the SEC and FINRA due to the fact that FRNT.PK was traded until Oct. 1.

Then there is the personal liability that Stemmler would have with a DFR lawsuit.

And what about the Honorable Mr. Drain? I am sure he was in on the entire "secret deal", right.

Wow.

I could go on and on but I have already wasted too much time on total nonsense.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

The generals male ex-lover must be from LBB.....

Almost correct, his wife is!