DL/NWA predictions.....

[~~~^~~~]

...how is Delta doing in the Asia market?

FANTASTIC, they are really excited about the numbers for Shanghai.

 

[PuffDriver]

FANTASTIC, they are really excited about the numbers for Shanghai.

Not to mention the operating margin for NWA in the PAC is just over 8% while Delta's is just over 10%.

I hate wearing my uniform, and always commute in civvies.

Being as there is no announcement, we will have to wait to decide whether or not they did the merger without the blessing of the MEC. I have always stated that they would regardless.

I would happily fly a -9 if the circumstances are right, am flying one now, and somewhat miss steam guages.

How arrogant is a rj driver throwing around mud without really knowing much?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

The arrogance of some of you Delta pilots is stunning! ...blah blah blah.

As for seniority integration...the only pilot group in the business that puts so much prestige on equipment flown is Delta. None of the rest of us cares what we fly...we just want the days off and the $$. Some of you bring up the DC-9's being old and so only NWA pilots should be furloughed...how is Delta doing in the Asia market? NWA does well there...stop cherrypicking arguments that suit your position.

...blah blah blah.. acouple things in the last paragraph were true...blah blah blah

Let's see, in 2 weeks, we've made a million on freight alone to PVG. Our margins are asia are great. So, moving on.

You seem to make an argument about us bragging about equipment and not about QOL and money. Welp, not only do we typically fly larger aircraft, we make considerably more than NWA guys do on their larger aircraft on our smaller aircraft and have better QOL.

Last I checked the hat comes off the moment I am outside of the airport and the uniform is off at first convienience. Work hard, play harder.

 

[FlyWolf]

We have been hearing a rumor of an announcement and a news conference is scheduled for tomorrow by Midwest, I wonder if it has anything to do with the NWA/DAL merger.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Puff-

Asia MARKET numn$ts! Shanghai is ONE city that DAL only recently began service. NWA has an established hub in NRT.

An rj condesention again from a DAL guy...wow that is a shock. You merely prove my point about DAL guys putting so much into aircraft type.

Lastly, I don't fly an rj. Would you care to measure your manhood against mine using something else, or can you accept that the only thing that matters in this profession is how much they'll pay you to stay home as much as you can?

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Puff-

BTW, I am assuming that you are a DAL guy since you are responding to my post directed at them. My apologies otherwise.

 

[Superpilot92]

http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/-delt...unce-combination-deal-/2008/04/13/3383662.htm

Delta, Northwest eye Tuesday to possibly announce combination deal; pilot issues still linger


(Associated Press WorldStream Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge) ATLANTA_Delta and Northwest could announce a combination as early as Tuesday that would create the world's biggest airline, but pilot contract issues still loomed and there was no guarantee the deal would move ahead, three people familiar with the talks said.

The people, who spoke on condition of anonymity Sunday because of the sensitivity of the situation, said officials were mobilizing for an announcement provided the boards of the two companies give final approval to a deal.

The boards of both companies have been having ongoing merger-related conversations. They could meet Monday to discuss moving forward, a person familiar with the talks said.

It was increasingly likely the two airlines would proceed without a prearranged seniority integration agreement between their pilots unions making one of the main issues whether pilots would accept a merger.

Leaders of Northwest's pilot union leaders issued a memo to rank-and-file pilots Sunday saying that they will oppose any merger that does not keep the interests of Northwest pilots "at the forefront of the decision-making process."

The union leaders, who met in Minnesota, said any combination must involve "fair and equitable seniority list integration."

It also remains unclear whether Delta pilots would be willing to make changes to their contract to give Delta more flexibility after a combination, one of the people said.

Delta may be willing to give incentives to Delta pilots to alter their contract, another person familiar with the talks said.

The changes being sought are related to the scope section in the Delta pilot contract, which in part spells out what planes pilots fly and what routes they fly, people familiar with the talks said.

Any changes to the contract, including financial incentives, would apply to only Delta pilots since their contract only governs that airline's pilots. Northwest pilots have a separate contract.

A memo sent Friday from Delta's pilots union to its members said union leaders were meeting in special session in Atlanta. It did not say what they were discussing. That meeting continued Sunday, people familiar with the talks said.

The usual approach in airline combinations has been to have pilots work out a joint union contract after a deal is announced. Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines Inc. and Eagan, Minnesota-based Northwest Airlines Corp. took a different approach in their talks for months, figuring that if they could obtain full pilot agreements in advance they would reap the benefit of a combined airline much sooner.

With that in mind, pilots were in line to get raises and equity in the combined company. But the two groups could not agree on seniority, which determines who flies more desirable aircraft and routes.

Now, the rising cost of oil has put all airlines under intense financial pressure. Since the talks began, Delta and Northwest have announced plans to reduce capacity this year, and Delta has announced plans to eliminate 2,000 jobs

 

[737 Pylt]

Puff-

Asia MARKET numn$ts! Shanghai is ONE city that DAL only recently began service. NWA has an established hub in NRT.

An rj condesention again from a DAL guy...wow that is a shock. You merely prove my point about DAL guys putting so much into aircraft type.

Lastly, I don't fly an rj. Would you care to measure your manhood against mine using something else, or can you accept that the only thing that matters in this profession is how much they'll pay you to stay home as much as you can?

Drunk:
While I'm sure you're a blast in the crew room hanging your winkie out telling other crew members how well endowed you are....Please give us a break as some of us are consuming alcohol while reading this board, and now have the tedious duty of cleaning off our keyboards after spitting beer from our nose!
Thanks alot!

737
Keep it in your pants dude!

 

[tomgoodman]

Wise restraint

I can't wait 'til Occam's Razor comes to .....

I suspect that Occam is holding his fire until it becomes clear "what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Atlanta to be born."

 

[NuGuy]

I suspect that Occam is holding his fire until it becomes clear "what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Atlanta to be born."

"All hope abandon, ye who enter here"

Nu

 

[olympus593]

Remember, I will pay for the third and fifth beers. And, I will walkaround the plane when it is between 75 and 80 degrees, as long as it is dry. Also, wearing the Delta uniform causes pilots to become chick magnets. Every young naive girl would love to "be wit" a Russian U-boat Commander. And are you sure you ONLY get goosebumps, or is that a banana in your pants? Hey, I don't go that way-----not that there is anything WRONG with that. Peace!


Bye Bye--General Lee

That was pretty funny general, My hat off too you.
If you by the third and fifth beers I'll buy you the sixth and seventh...I thought the preflight was the 50/50 rules??? 50% on the day above 50 Degrees.
Anyway happy flying to all.

 

[Aubie]

Olympus - who is that in your avatar?

 

[Occam's Razor]

I suspect that Occam is holding his fire until it becomes clear "what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Atlanta to be born."

"Surely some revelation is at hand."

 

[ACL65PILOT]

That it is Occam, that it is.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Olympus - who is that in your avatar?

Erin Andrews ... grrrrrrr.

sidelinehotties.com


You're welcome.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff-

Asia MARKET numn$ts! Shanghai is ONE city that DAL only recently began service. NWA has an established hub in NRT.

An rj condesention again from a DAL guy...wow that is a shock. You merely prove my point about DAL guys putting so much into aircraft type.

Lastly, I don't fly an rj. Would you care to measure your manhood against mine using something else, or can you accept that the only thing that matters in this profession is how much they'll pay you to stay home as much as you can?

Actually, my nuts have great feeling in them. Thanks for your concern.

Second, the numbers I posted are operating margins in the Pacific. It was to expand on fins post a bit. Our margins are better. They obviously make the larger profit due to sheer magnitude, and I suspect that it is this reason that Delta wants to pair with them.

As for the rj comment, it is you who brought up the arrogant Delta pilot thing. I merely responded in kind. You get what you give with regards to me.

As for the measure of manhood, I got over that a long time ago in high school. So how would you like to compare? Career path? W2? Color of car? Make of car? Bring it on, or we can be smart and bring it OFF.

 

[johnsonrod]

Yeah, this integration is going to be entertaining...

 

[whatitdoing?]

I'm getting the popcorn and beer. This is going to be really interesting.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Puff-

No, you didn't get over it in high school because you still make insecure insults about rj's like most DAL pilots I've known. But let's get back on the real issue...

DAL is nothing in the Asia Pacific market and NWA is strong (relative to DAL). For every DC-9 taunt there can also be an Asia retort from a redtailer. Why do DAL pilots insist on saying only NWA pilots should get furloughed because of the DC-9 when NWA would bring a lot of revenue that DAL pilots don't have access to? I think if the companies are merged, then both groups should share in a furlough. No need for a windfall.

Go ALPA! *extreme sarcasm*

 

[737 Pylt]

Puff-

No, you didn't get over it in high school because you still make insecure insults about rj's like most DAL pilots I've known. But let's get back on the real issue...

Drunk:
Don't go getting your panties in a wad! Not all rj pilots are dorks. Just some of the trolls that hang out here, and they know who they are!

DAL is nothing in the Asia Pacific market and NWA is strong (relative to DAL).

BFD!
NW has 4 cities that it goes to in Europe! How many in South AMerica? How many if Central America? How many in Africa?
Asia is one part of it!

For every DC-9 taunt there can also be an Asia retort from a redtailer. Why do DAL pilots insist on saying only NWA pilots should get furloughed because of the DC-9 when NWA would bring a lot of revenue that DAL pilots don't have access to?

OK, I tell you what.....Lets try the comparison from where you work. I don't know, but lets say you're flying from a mostly 70 seater operation, and merging with a 50 seat operation. After the 2 co's are done merging most of the 50 seaters will be parked and most of the furloughes will come from your airlines part of the seniority list. I mean after all they're bringining the 50 seaters with the better route structure so, its fair, right?

I think if the companies are merged, then both groups should share in a furlough. No need for a windfall.

Go ALPA! *extreme sarcasm*

I'll second your sarcasm quote!

737

 

[JoeMerchant]

OK, I tell you what.....Lets try the comparison from where you work. I don't know, but lets say you're flying from a mostly 70 seater operation, and merging with a 50 seat operation. After the 2 co's are done merging most of the 50 seaters will be parked and most of the furloughes will come from your airlines part of the seniority list. I mean after all they're bringining the 50 seaters with the better route structure so, its fair, right?

737

Using your example....yes it is fair. There is some value we would be getting from the 50 seat operator which would make us a stronger carrier. In addition, they are fellow ALPA members and the shoe could have been on the other foot. This is the problem with ALPA and you legacy guys.....You worry too much about the size of aircraft.....Longevity should be more important than aircraft size......

 

[737 Pylt]

Using your example....yes it is fair.

Of course its fair in your eyes, you're part of that bozo group that tried to sue for $100,000,000.
Remember the outcome of your seniority grab?:laugh:

There is some value we would be getting from the 50 seat operator which would make us a stronger carrier. In addition, they are fellow ALPA members and the shoe could have been on the other foot. This is the problem with ALPA and you legacy guys.....You worry too much about the size of aircraft.....Longevity should be more important than aircraft size......

This is the problem with you regional (rjdc) pukes. You make the mention of it (bigger airplanes) all the time. Matter of fact, you like to start lawsuits to get your hands on them, to fly them for less. Suiing this person and that person all for the goal of your own personal gain!

737

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff-

No, you didn't get over it in high school because you still make insecure insults about rj's like most DAL pilots I've known. But let's get back on the real issue...

DAL is nothing in the Asia Pacific market and NWA is strong (relative to DAL). For every DC-9 taunt there can also be an Asia retort from a redtailer. Why do DAL pilots insist on saying only NWA pilots should get furloughed because of the DC-9 when NWA would bring a lot of revenue that DAL pilots don't have access to? I think if the companies are merged, then both groups should share in a furlough. No need for a windfall.

Go ALPA! *extreme sarcasm*

Sigh, the rj comments are in direct response to your "arrogant Delta" comments. Get it now? If you would actually read the posts, I said that I would gladly fly the -9, and that steam gauges are a thing I miss. The numbers are correct in that Delta has a better margin on their flights in the PAC than NWA does. IOW Delta is doing it more efficiently and NWA is doing it on a larger scale. In addition, we've got some pretty big birds coming at the end of the year to free up some iron in order to go capture MORE of that PAC flying more efficiently. Get it?

I agree that it is all about a fair integration, and the Delta pilots put forth a fair package, outside the scope of ALPA merger policy--a unique approach in view of the unique opportunity. NWA was not comfortable with that approach for the reason that they are not allowed to capture "their" retirements. In other words, it basically boils down to the fact that they want US to share in their "furlough" metal, but they do not want us to share their attrition with regard to a seniority list. Meanwhile, they also captured the majority of the incentive package that the Delta MEC postured to get. Get it? Now they are going to get the traditional approach that they wanted, albeit with some twists. Their "representatives" on this board seem very sure of their position in an arbitration what with their favorable cash position, paid for -9s, and rock solid scope clause. Now, their "real" representatives are posturing with threats of scorched earth if they don't get their way. My MEC feels as if their cash position is going to start dwindling, while Delta's remains the same or even goes up. In this environment, it is all abut staying power-cash on hand. Refinancing in today's credit market can only be done if you are SWA, or big enough to command better credit ratings. So my MEC will play the strategy accordingly. Get it? NWA is playing their hand, Delta is playing ours. Bluffs are being called, raises are seen. Soon the cards will be turned over, and both sides will live with the ramifications of their strategy. I will accept it either way and move on. Sounds as if NWA will only accept their way, or the highway--from their MEC rag anyway.

So what else is bugging you? I've already negated very argument you had-twice, or are you just going to say the same things yet a third time? If THEY'VE got a rebuttal, why don't you let THEM make it, because frankly you are only making yourself look like a fool. Do you want to talk some more about my nuts?

 

[DTW320]

NWA was not comfortable with that approach for the reason that they are not allowed to capture "their" retirements. In other words, it basically boils down to the fact that they want US to share in their "furlough" metal, but they do not want us to share their attrition with regard to a seniority list.

Let's examine this statement. The reason NWA would expect the DAL side to at least share in furloughs is that it is the DALPA contract that allows the parking of the -9's that would cause the furloughs. Now the second part, DAL sharing in the attrition: What part of the NWAALPA contract justifies DAL pilots sharing in NWA attrition? Lack of DAL retirements is due to retirement provisions(lump sum) in the DALPA contract right?

Seems like a double standard. DAL scope allows all the -9's to be parked with zero penalty vs. NWA scope. NWA demographics create the future attrition. Yet you say that NWA -9 pilots should be furloughed while DAL pilots take the attrition?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Wait and see and the answers will appear before your eyes.
Some may not like the answer which mean some invariably will.

BTW have DAL and NWA asked the press for time yet?????

 

[~~~^~~~]

duplicate

 

[~~~^~~~]

Let's examine this statement. The reason NWA would expect the DAL side to at least share in furloughs is that it is the DALPA contract that allows the parking of the -9's that would cause the furloughs.

Actually that is a hole in the NWA scope, from several angles. The oblique angle has to do with your own outsourcing provisions and the more direct angle has to do with your contract's inability to bind a third party successor. Regardless, if your airplanes are being outsourced it IS your problem. As for how effective your scope is, I refer you to your own CEO's most recent two quarterly conference calls - which I have posted previously.

Now they are going to get the traditional approach that they wanted, albeit with some twists. Their "representatives" on this board seem very sure of their position in an arbitration what with their favorable cash position, paid for -9s, and rock solid scope clause. Now, their "real" representatives are posturing with threats of scorched earth if they don't get their way.

I will accept it either way and move on. Sounds as if NWA will only accept their way, or the highway--from their MEC rag anyway.

Puffdriver is right.

 

[Superpilot92]

Let's examine this statement. The reason NWA would expect the DAL side to at least share in furloughs is that it is the DALPA contract that allows the parking of the -9's that would cause the furloughs. Now the second part, DAL sharing in the attrition: What part of the NWAALPA contract justifies DAL pilots sharing in NWA attrition? Lack of DAL retirements is due to retirement provisions(lump sum) in the DALPA contract right?

Seems like a double standard. DAL scope allows all the -9's to be parked with zero penalty vs. NWA scope. NWA demographics create the future attrition. Yet you say that NWA -9 pilots should be furloughed while DAL pilots take the attrition?

Completely Accurate per scope and contact language. Its only a matter of time before a DAL guy who is a "NWA contract GURU" to try and "correct" you though.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puffdriver is right.

If you and I seeing eye to eye on something does not prove how this business one day can be a 180 from the previous day, I don't know what does.

Looking forward to a beer someday.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

737-

I agree that DAL has the European and South American routes. However, NWA has the Asia Pacific routes. This is a huge reason that merging makes sense for both companies.

Also, while I empathize with your opinion in getting furloughed to park DC-9's I do not sympathize. Merging these two companies makes them stronger together. Remember, both companies could continue on their own...fewer guarentees for both companies to do this though. In other words, they would be your DC-9's too.