Delta the Least Respected Brand in America

[SWA Bubba]

Their elected representatives voted NO, and someone didn't like that. That is in the ALPA by laws. That is allowed. Someone then had a hissyfit. Tell me that didn't happen.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Okay, "it" didn't happen. At least not like you imply.

Their elected representatives AGREED in writing to do something. Something, it turned out, that they had no intention of doing. That is NOT allowed. That's called "bad faith." That's why ALPA is being sued by some of its members, not Southwest or SWAPA. You did know about that, right?

Bubba

 

[SplitBar]

WHY? Do you guys respond to everything GL posts?

No doubt. They bite and give him exactly what he wants. Just ignore him and he wont keep ranting. I guess they respond because they are wound as equally tight. They all are an embarrassment and need to get a life. They are clearly trying to compensate for whatever shortcomings they have going on in their lives. At least it's a remainder as to why I rarely visit this forum anymore.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

How many SWA trolls does this thread attract?

 

[SWA Bubba]

How many SWA trolls does this thread attract?

I'm gonna' say... just slightly more than it does Delta trolls.

Bubba

 

[canyonblue]

You guys screwed it up. Right away in the DL merger, everyone was brought whole. A joint contract with equal pay was a priority.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Wow, two crappy pilot contracts brought together as one. :crying: Neither NWA or Delto had anything extremely valuable to either party, just two bankrupt carriers joining forces like Circuit City and CompUSA. "Dude, who has the better employee discount".:laugh:

You guys are now the laughing stock along with the US Easties.

Yeah, sure whatever Go kick your dog, or a DCI pilot if that's what gets you off. Get Delto to start treating the Connection pilots better, then you can come on here and pontificate. Until then, shut your piehole.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

The handful of times that I have gone on DAL in the past 7 years is because the ANA flight has been full, but you are right, the service has improved and DAL seems to be doing better than the others, but nowhere near the service at ANA or JAL, and as you pointed out, I have experienced the difference first hand. Thank you for your concern, but the mainline folks treat us better here that I was treated at my major gig back in the US, sorry to disappoint you!

It seems to be the "safe" choice across the Pacific. The service is getting a lot better, new lie flat seats, PTVs, etc. You should know, you fly DL to MSP all the time. Hey, do you ever get mean stares from the ANA guys? Always wondered about that. They must give you the "ice stare" all the time. Hmmmm. Good luck with that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SplitBar]

FWIW, the article was mostly referring to respectability regarding it's attractiveness as a quality investment. Until recently, Wall Street has generally hated airline stocks and they have never had a good reputation as good investments.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I agree, you guys are being too hard on DAL, they did crack the top 50 in Skytrax's world ranking by coming in at #49 this year, the only US carrier in the top 50....!

 

[Sparse]

I enjoyed Richard Anderson's opening in sky magazine about how it's all about taking care of people... While he's dragging DCI through the mud for more concessions on already low wages.

As a retired Delta pilot i was incensed with Anderson's opener in the old safety video. He said C.E. Woolman built Delta on the principles of honesty, integrity, and mutual respect. He is so correct. Richard Anderson doesn't even deserve being mentioned in the same sentence with CE Woolman much less being allowed to sit at his desk.

 

[jonjuan]

.......................

 

[Ty Webb]

Hatchet job.

I commute on Delta at least a few times every month, and I have noticed that the interiors have been upgraded (usuallyan MD-88 or MD-90, occaisonally an Airbus 320) the crews are polite and professional, they usually run on-time, and they have added a lot of technology for pax in the gate areas.

 

[Data]

You have had zero posts with any relevance. Zip. None.

Bye Bye---General Lee

Speaking of zero relevance, here's GL back when they voted to increase the size of RJs in the DCI fleet.

"Scope is HUGE and we won't budge. We have at least 51% that would vote NO on any increase in size of RJ for DCI.

Bye Bye--General Lee"

 

[redflyer65]

Speaking of zero relevance, here's GL back when they voted to increase the size of RJs in the DCI fleet.

OUCH!


Yea, he changed his tune pretty quickly when he saw the payraises, then started justifying (ie, spinning) the contract ASAP. History repeating itself over and over. It will happen next time too except it will be for a 100 seat regional jet that can fly across the country.

 

[dicko]

Buying another airline, and absorbing their pilots and routes over a 2-1/2 year period, and paying them your wagesas they're absorbed, is NOT outsourcing in any way whatsoever, especially not "to the MAX." !

Except that's not what's happening; At best it will be an integration over a 4.3 year period, paying lower wages and profiting from those lower wages. Whilst completely ignoring seniority.

That's called outsourcing with a B Scale. Same airplane, same company, lower wage. You've used the 'Delta owned Regional scam' that you so abhor, and thrown in a fancy twist. Having a semi finite time scale doesnt make a difference.

You can call it whatever you like to make yourself feel comfortable. It doesnt change how your peers in the industry, outside of your bubble, regard you as a group.

 

[redflyer65]

Except that's not what's happening; At best it will be an integration over a 4.3 year period, paying lower wages and profiting from those lower wages. Whilst completely ignoring seniority.

That's called outsourcing with a B Scale. Same airplane, same company, lower wage. You've used the 'Delta owned Regional scam' that you so abhor, and thrown in a fancy twist. Having a semi finite time scale doesnt make a difference.

You can call it whatever you like to make yourself feel comfortable. It doesnt change how your peers in the industry, outside of your bubble, regard you as a group.

You still working for AirTran Dicko?

Your wages are what you voted for on your last contract, right?

The integration agreement was also voted on an approved. 1 year or 4 years, it was agreed to as well.

Not even close to Delta outsourcing month in and month out for 20 years and counting. Sorry.

 

[General Lee]

Speaking of zero relevance, here's GL back when they voted to increase the size of RJs in the DCI fleet.

Did the RJ size (76 seats) increase? Did we budge on that number? Nope. That was what I was talking about. Are you talking about during BK when thr judge oversaw the process, or during the last two contracts? (the joint merger contract and the latest one) Overall, this last contract subtracted 140 total RJs from the fleet. That is a win. You can't just park them all at once, but adding 88 717s sure helps, and mainline wins there again. On a side note, I heard the NYC chief pilot said the 717s coming for the remainder of this year will increase from initially 3 per month, to 6 per month, and then back to 3 per month in Jan of next year. That will accelerate the recapture of RJ routes. Thanks for playing.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Except that's not what's happening; At best it will be an integration over a 4.3 year period, paying lower wages and profiting from those lower wages. Whilst completely ignoring seniority.

That's called outsourcing with a B Scale. Same airplane, same company, lower wage. You've used the 'Delta owned Regional scam' that you so abhor, and thrown in a fancy twist. Having a semi finite time scale doesnt make a difference.

You can call it whatever you like to make yourself feel comfortable. It doesnt change how your peers in the industry, outside of your bubble, regard you as a group.

Ouch.

Hey Red and Bubba, obviously people disagree with you. But, you WILL change their minds. Bahahahhahaha! You guys will never learn. Go LUV one each other right now....all the way to Harlingen.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SWA Bubba]

Except that's not what's happening; At best it will be an integration over a 4.3 year period, paying lower wages and profiting from those lower wages. Whilst completely ignoring seniority.

That's called outsourcing with a B Scale. Same airplane, same company, lower wage. You've used the 'Delta owned Regional scam' that you so abhor, and thrown in a fancy twist. Having a semi finite time scale doesnt make a difference.

You can call it whatever you like to make yourself feel comfortable. It doesnt change how your peers in the industry, outside of your bubble, regard you as a group.

Actually, I meant to say "3-1/2" instead of "2-1/2", and that's being generous. The mechanism to actually start merging (SL-10 for the SWAPA side) was signed at the end of Sept 2011, essentially 3 years and 3 months from the end of 2014. The actual beginning of doing anything didn't actually start until 2012, making it somewhat less than 3 years. Your "integration over a 4.3 year period" apparently starts counting the day Southwest announced its intention to acquire AirTran, even though nothing else actually happened for quite a while, and it wasn't even a done deal. The actual legal close of the transaction was in May 2011 at which point negotiations started in earnest on how to actually accomplish the integration. Whatever. You're arguing semantics to make your point seem greater.

As far as your "same airplane, same company, lower wage" claim, I'm gonna' have to throw the BS flag. Again, you're posturing and coloring facts to make your point seem more important. Sorry, that doesn't make it true because you're mad about the situation.

Once again for the hard of hearing: AirTran and Southwest are NOT the same company. They are two different airlines, with two different business models, and two different cost/revenue structures. Just because the two airlines are owned by the same company is immaterial. Each of the different companies has a different union representing their respective pilots. Each union negotiated the best deal that they could, based on their work and their respective companies' ability to pay. You (well, your union representatives actually) signed a contract to do certain flying for certain payrates. You're still doing the less-efficient AirTran flying; why should you be entitled to higher rates? The contract that you agreed to is not good enough for you now?

If you flew Southwest aircraft, and more importantly on a Southwest schedule, and got paid differently, THEN, and only then, could you make a legitimate claim of "B Scale." Until then, you're just like the General--using random, scary labor buzzwords to make your point seem better than it actually is.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Ouch.

Hey Red and Bubba, obviously people disagree with you. But, you WILL change their minds. Bahahahhahaha! You guys will never learn. Go LUV one each other right now....all the way to Harlingen.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Hey, I said there's unhappy people on both sides of the fence. Dicko is one of the more vocal on his side. However, that doesn't entitle him to his own facts.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Except that's not what's happening; At best it will be an integration over a 4.3 year period, paying lower wages and profiting from those lower wages. Whilst completely ignoring seniority.

That's called outsourcing with a B Scale. Same airplane, same company, lower wage. You've used the 'Delta owned Regional scam' that you so abhor, and thrown in a fancy twist. Having a semi finite time scale doesnt make a difference.

You can call it whatever you like to make yourself feel comfortable. It doesnt change how your peers in the industry, outside of your bubble, regard you as a group.

As far as your claim of "outsourcing" goes, more BS. If we had someone else do our flying FOR us at a lower cost, that would be outsourcing. On the other hand, buying another company and absorbing THEIR flying is the opposite of outsourcing. We're growing and getting MORE flying for SWAPA pilots at SWAPA-negotiated wages. You can't absorb AirTran's entire network instantly; they're working as fast as the IT department, training, painting, etc. can go. Hence the limited partial waiver of our scope clause to accomplish it.

Again, it boils down to the fact that now you don't like the fact that you are getting paid what you agreed to get paid to do the type of flying that you do.

That doesn't make this situation a B-scale OR outsourcing. You can use all the buzzwords that you want to complain, but that doesn't make them true. And all you do is minimize the situations when that sort of stuff actually IS true. I'm surprised that you haven't compared your poor plight to the holocaust or something.

Bubba